What's the relevant age for a bass?

[Al Krow]

I'm in conversation with a retailer about one of their basses and turns out that this 'new' model was made in 2015 but only obtained by them from their supplier in 2018, when it will likely have been available to try out in-store.

If you were buying a bass (and maybe at a later date selling it on), what would you be thinking of / saying as the 'correct age' of the bass?

Edited August 26, 2019 by Al Krow

[hooky_lowdown]

That would be 'new old stock', new stock is same year, so 2019.

[DoubleOhStephan]

1 minute ago, hooky_lowdown said:

That would be 'new old stock', new stock is same year, so 2019.

+1

[itu]

I find this twofold: the manufacturing year is one thing and when the usage started, another.

[Bassassin]

It's 100% year of manufacture. Having dabbled in the restoration & selling of vintage instruments, this is somewhat axiomatic.

The caveat is when it's still a manufacturer's current model to which there have been no incremental changes, it's completely reasonable for a retailer to sell it as current.

As far as re-selling's concerned though, if there's a serial number giving year of manufacture, you will struggle to convince a buyer that it's not really as old as it says...

[Nicko]

59 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:

That would be 'new old stock', new stock is same year, so 2019.

+1.  Anyne selling a "new" 2015 bass now should be offering at a discount.

[Reggaebass]

I know it’s a bit different,  but I had a similar experience with my  Fender P , which the shop found in their warehouse, it was 8 years old , in its case and still had the tags on , i bought it reduced as , new old stock 🙂

[hooky_lowdown]

Bike shops sell 'new old stock' at discounted prices all the time. May be music shops should follow.

[Al Krow]

12 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:

Bike shops sell 'new old stock' at discounted prices all the time. May be music shops should follow.

Interestingly the retailer has recently offered this bass at decent discount, which is kinda what got my attention in the first place; but with no explanation as to why it was being discounted. The age of the bass only came out of the woodwork when I asked them directly what the year of manufacture was, but maybe that needs to be a 'stock' question (excuse the pun) when we're buying 'new' basses in future? I'm guessing that there is more 'new old stock' in both physical and online stores than we perhaps realise?

1 hour ago, Bassassin said:

It's 100% year of manufacture. Having dabbled in the restoration & selling of vintage instruments, this is somewhat axiomatic.

The caveat is when it's still a manufacturer's current model to which there have been no incremental changes, it's completely reasonable for a retailer to sell it as current.

As far as re-selling's concerned though, if there's a serial number giving year of manufacture, you will struggle to convince a buyer that it's not really as old as it says...

I completely agree that trying to pass this off as anything other than a 2015 bass to a fellow bassist when reselling wouldn't be the right thing to do. Not sure whether that can be squared with saying "I bought this new in 2019", which would also, however, be true. I guess you just give full disclosure of both?

Edited August 26, 2019 by Al Krow

[hooky_lowdown]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Interestingly the retailer has recently offered this bass at decent discount, which is kinda what got my attention in the first place; but with no explanation as to why it was being discounted. The age of the bass only came out of the woodwork when I asked them directly what the year of manufacture was, but maybe that needs to be a 'stock' question (excuse the pun) when we're buying 'new' basses in future? I'm guessing that there is more 'new old stock' in both physical and online stores than we perhaps realise?

Most basses have serial numbers on the headstock, where you can find out year of manufacture (if you know what to look for). First thing I look at is a serial number, as for some brands, some years are better than others, and for me anyway will denote its value.

[dave_bass5]

New to you, new as in never been owned by someone else or played. To me both those say new bass. 
Sitting in a warehouse for 3 years, still new.

When someone sells something  on here and states ‘as new’ , they are talking about the condition, not that its been on a trip in the TARDS lol.

Edited August 26, 2019 by dave_bass5

[edwn]

I know what you mean -- always check the serial number -- I found a bass I liked in a shop this year and I checkled before buying and found it was made in 2015 ... But what's a retailer to do? Very high-end models hang around for a long time before they find their soulmates ... and they also hang around in the European central warehouse for a while before being shipped out to retailers .... I didn't get a sense that date of manufacture was grounds for a discount on an unopened-boxed product ... although this particular brand is usually available for much less than retail list anyway ...

The main question is even if it was a 2019 if you want to sell it later this year you're perhaps not in the realm of 50-60% new price but 70% for sure ... the depreciation kicks in the moment you walk out the door of the shop ... So in a way it doesn't really matter. A good backstory and good condition / no visible fretwear etc is more important than actual date when it comes to resale.

 

 

[Nicko]

2 hours ago, edwn said:

I know what you mean -- always check the serial number -- I found a bass I liked in a shop this year and I checkled before buying and found it was made in 2015 ... But what's a retailer to do? Very high-end models hang around for a long time before they find their soulmates ... and they also hang around in the European central warehouse for a while before being shipped out to retailers .... I didn't get a sense that date of manufacture was grounds for a discount on an unopened-boxed product ... although this particular brand is usually available for much less than retail list anyway ..

It depeds on the brand, but selling something like a 2015 Fender P as a new bass at 2019 Fender P prices is not acceptable in my view.  The big F - like them or not, continuously updates and "improves" the product so selling old stock at new prices means a different spec to the current RRP.  It might be different for other manufacturers and high end stuff. 

Avtually with Fender they couldn't do this because the names of the models have all changed recently.

You woudn't buy a 2015 spec car for the same price as a 2019 spec car, and the same arguments apply.

[itu]

So Fender is a brand that continuously updates and improves the recipe that has been in use since 1948? Give me a break. If I would be interested in an "improved" jazz or precision, I certainly would not look at Fender, maybe Lull, Sadowsky, de Gier, Overwater etc. Better quality and bang for buck.

My Vigiers have their serials furthest away from the headstock. Rickenbacker...

[AndyTravis]

We ordered a batch of Gibson Les Paul basses with 2008/9 serial numbers in December 2012 and they arrived in 2013, we sold them between 2013 and 2014.

all new. 

And some of the early Fender Roadworn basses has serial numbers indicating 1-2 years before the release date of the range.

[Dan Dare]

Surely it has to be when it's not been previously owned/played (excluding "owning" by the shop/store that buys it from the maker/manufacturer). I know demo instruments in shops are a bit of a grey area. I'd class them as used unless they're only been hung on the wall.

[darkandrew]

That's a similar question to asking whether a "new" bass or guitar that's been hanging on a music store's wall for six months (and played by all and sundry during that time) is actually still "new" or should it be sold as used? Often, smaller music stores will only have one example of a particular model and they display it in the store. So if they don't carry boxed stock, should they sell all their stock as used and price it accordingly?

Edited August 26, 2019 by darkandrew

[DoubleOhStephan]

Just now, darkandrew said:

That's a similar question to asking whether a "new" bass or guitar that's been hanging on a music store's wall for six months (and played by all and sundry during that time) is actually still "new" or should it be sold as used? Often, smaller music stores will only have one example of a particular model and they display it in the store, and don't carry boxed stock - so should they sell all their stock as used?

Ex-display? 

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

We ordered a batch of Gibson Les Paul basses with 2008/9 serial numbers in December 2012 and they arrived in 2013, we sold them between 2013 and 2014.

all new. 

And some of the early Fender Roadworn basses has serial numbers indicating 1-2 years before the release date of the range.

Andy - interesting. So based on that would give a different poll answer to the rest who have expressed a vote?

[darkandrew]

8 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Andy - interesting. So based on that would give a different poll answer to the rest who have expressed a vote?

Not necessarily - I think a 2008 bass is a 2008 bass. I've noticed with one of my guitars in particular, where I have 3 of the same make and model (MIJ ESP Eclipse) but all of different years, that the older they get, the more resonant they become, so being older isn't necessarily a bad thing. But back to my earlier point - it must be even more difficult for smaller stores to compete if they can't afford to carry large amounts of boxed stock and then have to discount what they do have because it's been used (and in some cases, abused) by every Mark King or Slash wannabe in the local area for the preceding six months.

Edited August 26, 2019 by darkandrew

[BrunoBass]

I bought a brand new EBMM Stingray from PMT in 2016. When I checked the serial number on the EBMM website it said the bass had been finished and shipped to UK distributor Strings n Things in 2011. Five years sitting in a warehouse somewhere. Half of me didn’t give a flying one, half of me was amazed.

[Little Dragon]

Spoiler

 

I suppose if it was a car ,it would be a 2015 with delivery miles only.

[hooky_lowdown]

1 hour ago, BrunoBass said:

I bought a brand new EBMM Stingray from PMT in 2016. When I checked the serial number on the EBMM website it said the bass had been finished and shipped to UK distributor Strings n Things in 2011. Five years sitting in a warehouse somewhere. Half of me didn’t give a flying one, half of me was amazed.

You may not care about the date of production getting it new, but you will for resale! 😉

[mikel]

9 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

I know it’s a bit different,  but I had a similar experience with my  Fender P , which the shop found in their warehouse, it was 8 years old , in its case and still had the tags on , i bought it reduced as , new old stock 🙂

I would say that was new. If its never been played then its new afaiac. You could buy a 2019 bass from a shop that 30 people have tried out.

[drTStingray]

The new date of a bass is the date the manufacturer records the serial number as its birth date.

Anything much older than say 9 months, in a shop, I'd be asking for a discount on. 

There are manufacturers who mass produce and saturate the market - they usually insist on retailers holding a large amount of their wares in stock. It's little wonder that examples of relatively old new items floating around.