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Stevie’s 12” FRFR Cab Build Thread (Basschat Cab v3)

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2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Does anyone plan on building 2?

Yes.  One for me as bass cabinet and one for child below as keyboard cabinet.

Here she is at Gunby Hall on the piano in the music room.  Kudos to National Trust for letting visitors play some of their instruments.

IMG-20191009-WA0000.thumb.jpg.d91679a2443c0b5703afa63596f9b71c.jpg

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@basstone I might be interested in a cover depending on cost. Do you think it should be a padded one, or just the tough cordura type cover?

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I'd be interested in a cover too. Kit arrived a couple of days ago but I'm not sure when I'll get a round tuit - hopefully I can make a start this weekend.

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I'd also be interested in a cover. I seem to recall from discussions on here that there's an alternative supplier with a superior product.

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14 hours ago, funkle said:

@basstone I might be interested in a cover depending on cost. Do you think it should be a padded one, or just the tough cordura type cover?

@funkle The Roqsolid ones I have in mind have a water resistant polypropylene outer cover with a felt lining. Edges are bound with a colour of your choice. It's their standard Ampguard range. I've sent of an enquiry to them to get an idea of pricing. These are the ones I've bought before for all my amps and speakers. They have proved to be very durable and not only help keep the gear protected, they also help avoid damage to my car during transit.

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12 hours ago, stevie said:

I'd also be interested in a cover. I seem to recall from discussions on here that there's an alternative supplier with a superior product.

I'd be interested to hear others experience of alternative suppliers. I have used Roqsolid frequently over the years and found their products and service to be excellent. They did once get a cover slightly wrong but sent me a correct replacement very quickly. Some of my covers are now well over 10 years old and still as good as new. the felt backed material with bound stitched seams offers a good level of protection against knocks, abrasion and also keeps the rain off between car and venue.

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7 hours ago, basstone said:

I'd be interested to hear others experience of alternative suppliers. I have used Roqsolid frequently over the years and found their products and service to be excellent. They did once get a cover slightly wrong but sent me a correct replacement very quickly. Some of my covers are now well over 10 years old and still as good as new. the felt backed material with bound stitched seams offers a good level of protection against knocks, abrasion and also keeps the rain off between car and venue.

Hot Covers is the other main maker. 

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That's the one. And they will print the logo on the outside for you. Worth checking out perhaps.

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1 hour ago, stevie said:

That's the one. And they will print the logo on the outside for you. Worth checking out perhaps.

From what I can see on the Hot Covers web site, the pricing is likely to be similar to Roqsolid. The appearance is very different due to the use of a more padded foam backed material and putting the seams on the inside rather than Roqsolid's use of felt backing and external taped seams. The extra padding does make the Hot Covers appear more bulky but I would think they would offer great protection. At the end of the day it is a matter of personal taste. I already have many Roqsolid covers so I will be going down that route.

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1 minute ago, Gigbab said:

I am also interested in a cover for what will become no. 010 in due course...

I'll let you know the price when I get a response from Roqsolid.

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On 09/10/2019 at 16:36, converse320 said:

Yes.  One for me as bass cabinet and one for child below as keyboard cabinet.

IMG-20191009-WA0000.thumb.jpg.d91679a2443c0b5703afa63596f9b71c.jpg

I think you will find that that doesn't need plugging in.

I also think (having been a child piano player that people let me play pianos in random places), if you ask and offer the choice between the piano and the cab, you might not need another cab, just another room!

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6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I think you will find that that doesn't need plugging in.

I also think (having been a child piano player that people let me play pianos in random places), if you ask and offer the choice between the piano and the cab, you might not need another cab, just another room!

I am constantly amazed at the really decent pianos on offer for free locally, and would have one in a heartbeat if I could find enough space.   

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12 minutes ago, converse320 said:

I am constantly amazed at the really decent pianos on offer for free locally, and would have one in a heartbeat if I could find enough space.   

When I was a kid my piano was a free one that came from someone locally. That was always the way with pianos, they are a bugger to shift!

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Question- and I should know this - As it all slots together is it best to glue the main bit of the cab appart from top and bottom all in one go as it’s self squaring - or do the braces first and let it dry then the sides etc? I’m thinking all in one go (must remember the T nuts! )

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Today's the day then, Luke?

Good question. If you're an experienced cab builder with plenty of clamps and the necessary tools (like a brad nailer), you should be able to assemble the cab in one go. If this is your first attempt at building a cab, I suggest you work on one panel at a time, following the order of assembly on pp 20-21 of the other thread.

The reason was pointed out by basstone and chienmortbb earlier. The plywood has a tendency to bow in the centre when you apply pressure to both ends. So it's likely that you'll need all four clamps to ensure a perfect fit - especially when you're fitting the second side panel.

The job of the clamps is a) to hold the wood firmly in position while the glue dries and b) to apply pressure where required to adjust the position of the panels to ensure a tight fit with smooth seams. 

Although they say that full strength is reached after 24 hours, most PVA wood glues are fairly solid after one or two hours. I'd give the back panel and braces two hours to set, with perhaps one hour for the other panels - but there's no harm in waiting longer. Just make sure all your 90-degree angles are 90 degrees and check the dry fit of the next panel or two panels before the glue sets. I know I keep repeating this - but it's really important. And don't forget chienmortbb's pencil trick.

 

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1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

Question- and I should know this - As it all slots together is it best to glue the main bit of the cab appart from top and bottom all in one go as it’s self squaring - or do the braces first and let it dry then the sides etc? I’m thinking all in one go (must remember the T nuts! )

My thoughts - I am often wrong so treat with caution.

Short answer - you are limited by how many clamps you have.  if you are skilled and confident and have maybe 24 clamps do it in 2 stages. Otherwise you'll have to do it in more and smaller stages .

I've done 2 now.  If I were to do another one,for perfect results I would do some initial preparation then glue it in one go - it will then pull together correctly.  To do it like this will need a lot of clamps - you'd need to clamp in 3 planes, in maybe 8 locations per plane - so 24 clamps, though not all need be super long.  You would also need to work quickly so do several dry assemblies first as practice.  So you'd need to be reasonably experienced and confident, and it could potentially get a bit hairy.   Open time for PVA on timber like this is not super long.

So I would

1)  First glue up the back and its braces and input panel, and front and single brace, giving completed front and back assemblies.  Be careful, use long reach clamps, check everything goes down properly.  This is pretty straightforward - practice first.

2)  Glue the reinforcing ring/circle to the top and bottom panels - easy, make sure you stick them on the insides though

3)  Pour glue into a bowl, stiff paintbrush to apply, big clear work bench, huge stack of clamps, someone to help pass clamps and apply glue super quickly.  Glue all ends, channels, edges.  Two coats, work really quickly.  Knock together with rubber mallet, then gently pull it together in all 3 planes.   

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2 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

Question- and I should know this - As it all slots together is it best to glue the main bit of the cab appart from top and bottom all in one go as it’s self squaring - or do the braces first and let it dry then the sides etc? I’m thinking all in one go (must remember the T nuts! )

All good advice above. I found in my build that using 3 clamps per join was advisable to ensure no bowing of the join either at the ends or middle. Pencil line will help to check this. I found that it was possible to effectively glue and clamp opposite sides to reduce the number of gluing stages. I did however fit the other panels dry to ensure that everything stays square and that they will fit properly during subsequent gluing stages. Generally just take your time and make sure that you’re happy with each stage before gluing then once clamped leave it ideally 24 hrs before moving on to the next stage. 

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I particularly like the "pour glue into a bowl" suggestion. Squeezing the glue out of a litre bottle over such a long length is a pain.

Edited by stevie
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1 hour ago, stevie said:

Today's the day then, Luke?

Good question. If you're an experienced cab builder with plenty of clamps and the necessary tools (like a brad nailer), you should be able to assemble the cab in one go. If this is your first attempt at building a cab, I suggest you work on one panel at a time, following the order of assembly on pp 20-21 of the other thread.

Possibly - although this morning was mostly spent with Zinser Coverall and this afternoon I'll be taking the little one to a farm I think. 

I'll do it slow and steady like everyone is suggesting. When I first got it I was having to hit it quite hard with a mallet to slot everything in for a dry fit... a wee bit of sanding later and it dry fits together perfectly without the mallet needing to be in involved. Lightly sanding the shoulders of the rabbets and it gets rid of a lot of the bowing problems - I think a lot of that is due to the CNC cutter seeming to having a very slight angle on the cuts.
 I honestly think I could slap glue on the joints and do it in one based on how well it fits together and self squares itself.... Slow and steady is recommended though so I'll do that. 

Edited by LukeFRC
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On 06/10/2019 at 21:18, converse320 said:

I'll post some pics in a while.  Something I learnt on the first joint I glued up is that this is super thirsty ply and needs rather more glue than you might be used to using.  I'm gluing both surfaces, and also giving each face one a coat of pva, leaving for a minute, then giving another coat.  It just soaks straight in.

I think you are right about the glue. A really good coating and using the rubber mallet (if you have not got one you should have) or a hammer with a sacrificial piece of wood, Gently tap from the centre to the ends to ensure the joint is well seated all the way along. This encourages any surplus adhesive to squeeze out at the ends rather than pooling midway along the joint. 
Then use the clamps. I used two, one at each end and one through the woofer hole.    I should have used more at least one at each joint (4). 

I suggest this way as I am sure this was where I went wrong. Finally check that there is a perfect 90 degree angle between the two pieces. 

One other point. It should be OK to screw  the top/bottom at each corner, if required until the glue sets. Make sure the carcass is fully dry before drilling or driving the screws home.

 The metal corners will hide any cosmetic imperfections after the hole is filled. Firstly drill a pilot hole through the top/ bottom into the corner of the carcass. I use a 2/2.5mm drill for that. Then a clearance hole through the top/bottom only, 4mm. Do not use a countersunk screw . Of course if you have too many clamps.....*.

Once the glue has dried you can either counterbore the hole driving the screw below the surface then fill the hole, or just fill the hole. I will post pictures early next week. 

 

* There is no such thing as too many clamps or too many basses  (he said as he bid on a fiver).

 

Edited by Chienmortbb
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Got my stuff from blue aran to make speaker 011 (which I picked up today), Got the speaker and the tuf paint, and the handle.  One of these parts doesn't seem quite right though...

IMG_5907.jpg.2b34dbf83b656fbe852a920f9c27bfca.jpg

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The padding stuff, is it like ebay item 162935948623? It misses out the word cotton, but looks the same

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