Technique ignorant

[White Cloud]

On 19/07/2019 at 10:12, Raymondo said:

Prompted by the "Bass ramp" thread

I have been a member on here for years. I have played bass since 1972, and you know what? I've never heard of these.

I don't ever think about how I play. I never analyse anything.... I was once asked if" I meant to play all those ghost notes"?....I had and still have no idea what ghost notes are. 

I learned ,from here, that I must use the "floating thumb" technique whilst playing, but have no idea how...I just play that way.

I don't understand what "left hand muting" means, I don't have any interest in using effects pedals.

I just plug in and play ….learning to play covers by ear and making up my own lines by feel.

I have enjoyed myself, played loads of gigs and just let things wash over me.

Am I the only one?

I think this describes my own sentiments on bass playing perfectly. 

[blisters on my fingers]

19 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

Now we're getting a bit surreal - Once in a Lifetime has a clear key centre, it is not ambiguous. And the bassline contains this note. 

Well the key of the song is D to my ears, but the bassline is two notes A and F#, the fifth and third of D major. If the song is in the key of D then the bassline (which repeats through the whole song) never plays the tonic. 

Which is why I was asking what key we think it is in.

[paul_c2]

The Talking Heads song is in A minor, the guitar plays A7sus4 and the bass plays a riff with the notes F#, A and B. (Yes its quite an unusual harmony but the bass plays the root).

[blisters on my fingers]

Ok that's not the way it sounds to me.

Where is the B note in the bass line ? 

Cannot hear that at all.

[paul_c2]

Can you read music? I can scan in the music.

[ambient]

16 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

Can you read music? I can scan in the music.

I don’t know the song, this is all I can find, the key sig is D. That might of course be wrong.

Edited July 23, 2019 by ambient

[paul_c2]

2 sharps doesn't necessarily mean a piece of music is in D. It could be in B minor....or A mixolydian. I don't know why they use 2 sharps - it feels more like minor rather than major and nowhere in the piece does a C or C# occur, so I think it would be better to notate/transcribe it with 1 sharp, ie A dorian. 

Its probably a bad example to try get your head around if you're not fluent in music theory including modes......but from the sound of it (not just the way its been notated), it definitely sounds like its in A. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by paul_c2

[ambient]

11 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

2 sharps doesn't necessarily mean a piece of music is in D. It could be in B minor....or A mixolydian. I don't know why they use 2 sharps - it feels more like minor rather than major and nowhere in the piece does a C or C# occur, so I think it would be better to notate/transcribe it with 1 sharp, ie A dorian. 

Its probably a bad example to try get your head around if you're not fluent in music theory including modes......but from the sound of it (not just the way its been notated), it definitely sounds like its in A. 

It being an A7 would suggest D. It’s a sus4, so the third C# is replaced by the 4th.

Edited July 23, 2019 by ambient

[paul_c2]

Well....yes and no. 

[ambient]

8 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

Well....yes and no. 

So where’s the F# come from? The reason there’s no C# actually played is because they’re playing a Sus4 chord, so the 3rd; C# is replaced in the chord by the 4th.

Like I say, I don’t know the song, I’ve never heard it, never played it. I did a search and found that. The key sig is D major. The relative minor is B minor, though the chords suggests to me at least D.

Edited July 24, 2019 by ambient

[paul_c2]

What do you mean, where the F# come from? There is an F# because that's that Tina plays in the bass (amongst other notes, including A (and B)).

Without getting overly complicated/confusing, it could be interpreted as quartal harmony. But definitely, from listening to it, the key centre is A. 

 

[ambient]

2 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

What do you mean, where the F# come from? There is an F# because that's that Tina plays in the bass (amongst other notes, including A (and B)).

Without getting overly complicated/confusing, it could be interpreted as quartal harmony. But definitely, from listening to it, the key centre is A. 

 

I mean where’s the F# if it’s A minor? You can get complicated, I’m not exactly a novice with harmony or musical theory. I’m guessing you’re hearing the A tonality because they’re playing A7sus4. It’s an A7 chord though, the dominant of D, again suggesting the key is D.

[paul_c2]

That's why I suggested A dorian or A mixolydian - both of those modes have an F# in them, instead of the F natural which would indicate A aeolian (ie minor) or some other mode of A. 

[ambient]

3 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

That's why I suggested A dorian or A mixolydian - both of those modes have an F# in them, instead of the F natural which would indicate A aeolian (ie minor) or some other mode of A. 

A mixolydian is D major. 

[paul_c2]

They have the same key signature but they are not the same. Just as C major is not the same as A minor. For further info on this subtlety, Google "relative minor modulation".

[ambient]

2 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

They have the same key signature but they are not the same. Just as C major is not the same as A minor. For further info on this subtlety, Google "relative minor modulation".

I don’t need to use Google. A mixolydian is derived from D major, it’s the 5th mode, the notes are the same, which is what I was implying, the two are related. Post a picture of the sheet music that you offered to post earlier; I can read music by the way, since you asked the other guy, let’s see what key yours is in. 

[paul_c2]

8 hours ago, ambient said:

I don’t need to use Google. 

So we're in 100% agreement that C major is NOT the same key as A minor?

[ambient]

29 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

So we're in 100% agreement that C major is NOT the same key as A minor?

A minor is the relative minor, it can be called the aeolian mode, built on the 6th degree of the scale. So in C major it’s A minor. Same notes, just starting on the A.

Is this some sort of test? I thought I’d had enough of H&T tests during my MMus.

Are you going to admit that the key is D major? I mean consider the A7sus4 chord, with an A and F# played on the bass, that implies, to me at least D major: D, E, F#, G, A. There’s no C# because that would spoil the suspended and open quality that they’re going for using the sus chord.

[paul_c2]

If you want to press on with the assertion the key is D, that's fine with me. I've listened to the music, I hear the key centre as A; and analysis of the notes played reveals further details which are interesting too.

[ambient]

Just now, paul_c2 said:

If you want to press on with the assertion the key is D, that's fine with me. I've listened to the music, I hear the key centre as A; and analysis of the notes played reveals further details which are interesting too.

👍

[Raymondo]

You see…. all this aoelian and dorian mode malarkey is exactly what passes me by.

Oh  i'm impressed by you all and a little in awe of your knowledge...just not bothered about joining you.

I just listen to the song and play what I hear .

If I get it wrong " technically", I don't worry ...it sounds ok to me so I play it that way...

Frank Zappa must be turning in his grave!😂

[lowdown]

19 hours ago, ambient said:

I don’t know the song, this is all I can find, the key sig is D. That might of course be wrong.

I'm not sure that part is quite right (Well, the Bass isn't). I suppose because of the lack of 'E' in that first chord it could just as easily be 'Dsus4/A Bass or, of course, A7sus4 (omit 5).

The Bass doesn't play the first down beat of the Bar, so their is no F# Bass in the chord. The second bar there is an F# Bass in the chord. On the PDF sketch score below, from bar 23 onwards, the Guitar parts will explain more what is going on chord wise. Certainly a lot of F# against G happening within the chord(s), along with some lines consisting of 4th's. Quite clever really.

This is why @blisters on my fingers isn't hearing a root note (only inversions). Because, maybe there isn't any root note. It's in the Key of D (2 sharps for sure). Plus, I can't here a 'B' note anywhere in the Bass, as in that chart above?

I have attached a full PDF sketch score below (from years ago). It's not properly formatted, rests missing, wrong drum notation heads and all in concert etc. But this may help.

 

 

One In A Lifetime.pdf

 

 

 

 

Plus here is the two bar Bass line (it just sounds like a loop all the way through).

Edited July 24, 2019 by lowdown

[blisters on my fingers]

This is the original release and the bass line is exactly as notated in the previous post from Lowdown. 

A two bar pattern using A and F# notes. No B at all is there?

Edited July 24, 2019 by blisters on my fingers

[ambient]

23 hours ago, blisters on my fingers said:

Well the key of the song is D to my ears, but the bassline is two notes A and F#, the fifth and third of D major. If the song is in the key of D then the bassline (which repeats through the whole song) never plays the tonic. 

Which is why I was asking what key we think it is in.

Apparently I’m wrong and it’s not in D 😊, but yes, it’s just playing the major 3rd and 5th. So yes, you’re right, though I’m sure someone else will come along and argue otherwise.

[Ricky 4000]

Well... It sounds a bit 'bum' in the chorus! 😀

(sorry Tina Weymouth, if you're looking in) 😔