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Cheapest Way to Try MM


thegummy

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13 hours ago, songofthewind said:

, but I find the wide nut on EBMM basses to be too wide for my delicate little paws,  being a Jazz Bass player by temperament.

Clearly you've never played an EBMM USA Sterling - 1 1/2" nut

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On 25/06/2019 at 21:15, thegummy said:

That does look primising, the fact they double the time they're legally required to let you return it confirms they're not just being forced to follow the law and are happy to do it. I did wonder if maybe the bigger companies like Thomann and possibly GuitarGuitar would be fine with the returns since they possibly deal with such high numbers that they're not hurt by losses.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Will have to look at how much it costs to send a bass to Germany but I'd expect it's reasonable and worth it.

Happy to spend a certain amount to try it, my first thought was to look in to possibly hiring one for a week but the prices I found for instrument hire were laughable.

Cheers!

I ordered an Ibanez from one of the German companies (forget which one, wasn’t Thomann) and they paid return shipping; they sent the appropriate label. 

To be honest, I wouldn’t worry too much if you need to return it; it’s part of the business these days. 

FWIW, I never liked the feel of the USA Subs. 

Edited by 4000
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Just picked up an SBMM SB14 that has been modded with an SD Alnico pickup and an East MMSR4 3-band preamp for a very decent price.  Hopefully this will do the trick nicely.

Seriously thinking of making it into a budget Old Smoothie with a bit of routing.  Might be an interesting project.

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I have had a few MM's and EB's over he years, nice basses but ultimately not for me. Never tied the sub or Sterling but I do have a Japanese Ibanez ATK 300 that gets me pretty close to the Stingray sound and feel whenI'm in the mood. They are very well made  and get you 90% there in the sound imho.

Good luck, enjoy the search.

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On 25/06/2019 at 21:15, thegummy said:

Will have to look at how much it costs to send a bass to Germany but I'd expect it's reasonable and worth it.

Never returned a bass to Thomann, but I have returned pedals just because I didn't like them and they issued a free return label.

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On 25/06/2019 at 07:09, thegummy said:

Sorry I think I've missed some key info.

If I do decide I want to add it, I couldn't actually afford one of the full fat 2 grand plus models, it would be the ones around 800 new I'd be looking at.

So if even those don't really give "the MM sound" then it's back to the drawing board (or probably just giving up on the idea).

Gumtree is good cause it has the location search (though I rarely seem to find much anyway) but I never get how to use forums since there's no way to search by location and they usually don't have the location in the title, only when clicking in to the thread. Any tips on that?

Just another quick question re: the 2 vs 3 band EQ variations - do they sound the same when flat?

Appreciate the replies so far :)

P.S. I'm in the Glasgow area but I don't think I could accept an offer so generous even if someone was willing to lend me one!

 

If you are ever in Edinburgh, send me a message and I'll happily let you try my 2002 Stingray (with a 3-band John East preamp) and my 2003 Made in USA EBMM SUB with original 2EQ.

Personally, I find a lot of other basses are ok. I had a long honeymoon period with OLP basses in particular: once you find a nice one, they're a good platform to modify. But nothing really compared to a nice genuine Stingray, except the SUB.

 

edit: sometimes various MM/J or MM/P basses have been suggested as getting close, even the G&L L2000. I cannot agree with that. They can be very nice, but when the pickup is not even close to the position in a Stingray, you just cannot get close to that. The Ibanez ATK series gets a bit closer, but it's still very much not-Stingray. I had an ATK300 in natural for a while. Beautiful bass. Great sound. Not Stingray like, just another very nice sound.

Edited by mcnach
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On 25/06/2019 at 21:40, songofthewind said:

A fellow Scot here, with a Sterling Sub Ray 4 in my arsenal. (No cheap shots, please, about tight Scotsmen, or I will hunt you down like a dog.)

 

Typical scot! Won't even pay for a dog to hunt me down properly >ducks<

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14 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

If you are ever in Edinburgh, send me a message and I'll happily let you try my 2002 Stingray (with a 3-band John East preamp) and my 2003 Made in USA EBMM SUB with original 2EQ.

Just out of curiosity, did the John East preamp on your '02 Stingray make much of a difference?

I have an '05 Stingray with the original preamp and I've been thinking of switching it up for a MMSR preamp.

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Either way, personally I'd get a decent used one end then sell on if it isn't right for you. There's a good SUB in London on Gumtree right now at £495 asking:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/musicman-sub-bass-us-made/1344797270

Might get one like that for say 450, and worst case sell on at a very slight loss, the difference is like a lease or hire charge.
Alternatively just push the budget a bit and find a used US MM starting a grand maybe - same deal, if not happy sell on. You see basses change hands here under that scheme - they come back 6 months later for re-sale, nothing wrong with them, just haven't found their player yet.

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3 hours ago, Soledad said:

Either way, personally I'd get a decent used one end then sell on if it isn't right for you. There's a good SUB in London on Gumtree right now at £495 asking:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/musicman-sub-bass-us-made/1344797270

Might get one like that for say 450, and worst case sell on at a very slight loss, the difference is like a lease or hire charge.
Alternatively just push the budget a bit and find a used US MM starting a grand maybe - same deal, if not happy sell on. You see basses change hands here under that scheme - they come back 6 months later for re-sale, nothing wrong with them, just haven't found their player yet.

This exactly.....any other option will not be trying a Stingray - it'll be trying a Stingray copy :-)

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11 hours ago, kyuuga said:

Just out of curiosity, did the John East preamp on your '02 Stingray make much of a difference?

I have an '05 Stingray with the original preamp and I've been thinking of switching it up for a MMSR preamp.

 

The 2EQ pat is not that different. I do think it's less shrill on the treble and the bass a bit tighter... but there is not much between them. The reason to replace the original, for me, was adding the semiparametric mids. If you go for a MMSR, get the 3-band. With the mid control at the centre detent it does nothing and you get the usual 2EQ goodness. But when you need a bit more control over the midrange (for any value between 100 and 2000 Hz), that extra control is there for you and comes really handy.

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11 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

The 2EQ pat is not that different. I do think it's less shrill on the treble and the bass a bit tighter... but there is not much between them. The reason to replace the original, for me, was adding the semiparametric mids. If you go for a MMSR, get the 3-band. With the mid control at the centre detent it does nothing and you get the usual 2EQ goodness. But when you need a bit more control over the midrange (for any value between 100 and 2000 Hz), that extra control is there for you and comes really handy.

Yeah, I wanted to replace the preamp because I feel like the treble control is too "glassy" and the mids hardly do anything (well they do boost the presence but the specific frequency sounds like donkey).

But honestly not sure if it's worth spending 200+ quid on a single preamp...

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1 hour ago, kyuuga said:

Yeah, I wanted to replace the preamp because I feel like the treble control is too "glassy" and the mids hardly do anything (well they do boost the presence but the specific frequency sounds like donkey).

But honestly not sure if it's worth spending 200+ quid on a single preamp...

 

More like £150-160. It's still not cheap but it's 25% less ;)

 

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2 hours ago, kyuuga said:

well they do boost the presence but the specific frequency sounds like donkey

I'm considering a MM SR and got the idea the 2EQ was the one I'd like - but please explain donkey (is it one of those forum substitute things)?
Most used seem to be 3EQ - is the 2EQ worth waiting for and paying for age I probably don't care about? Drifting off-topic here but at least we're still on MM, (and donkey).

Edited by Soledad
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If it helps any, I got a Stingray in a trade that came with the MMSR already installed. I knew that the original preamp was better, so I took it out and sold it. I then immediately regretted it and bought another.

 

It's almost worth it just to have bloomin' center detentes on the bass and treble, but the semi-parametric mid means it's capable of a lot more tonal variation than many basses.

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2 hours ago, Soledad said:

I'm considering a MM SR and got the idea the 2EQ was the one I'd like - but please explain donkey (is it one of those forum substitute things)?
Most used seem to be 3EQ - is the 2EQ worth waiting for and paying for age I probably don't care about? Drifting off-topic here but at least we're still on MM, (and donkey).

Oh yeah it's one of those substitutes...donkey is S H I T (if this also gets censored it's the S word that ends with HIT). 

2EQ and 3EQ are very different in terms of use - not so much sound wise as some people think. 3EQ is way easier to use but the problem with the Mid frequency is that it's a double-edged sword. On one hand it'll definitely help cut through the mix, if you turn that all the way up there's no way your bass will go unnoticed, not even in the heaviest mix. However, the specific frequency it boosts (500hz) is very..."ugly" I'd say. I don't know how to describe it but it's that typical mid frequency that makes your bass sound very dull. Obviously in a mix that won't be as noticeable but it's still not a pretty tone.

The treble frequency is also very "glassy". If you turn it more than 2/3rds up then it's just too sparkly for my taste. You gotta use it carefully.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about the "old" MM's here, but from what I've seen the Stingray Special (2018+ model) doesn't have these issues since the preamp is 9v (more headroom) and also the preamp is much nicer and more controlled.

The 2EQ is way harder to use because there's no center detent and you're not only boosting bass and treble but also many of the frequencies around (the spectrum of the frequencies boosted by the preamp is much wider).

You really have to use your ear...but it also provides a different sound, a bit more scooped I'd say but also a bit mellower. But to me it's not worth the hassle. 

Either way, both the 2EQ and the 3EQ sound like a Stingray and in a mix the difference is barely noticeable IMO (some will argue the 2EQ soundwise is SO MUCH BETTER but hey...I've never noticed much of a difference unless you use the Mid knob a lot on your 3EQ).

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Thanks for that @kyuuga - I'm in no rush at all on this, need to try one or two. Seems I'd be OK with the 3EQ, can just leave mid flat anyway. Given the degree of mid shaping most heads offer, a compromised mid on the bass could be ignored. I'm used to passives (and like them) so find some onboard preamps just more sound drama than I need.

Really need to go play a few anyway.

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One of the big advantages of the 2EQ is that you can use it pretty much the same as a passive.    I always max the bass, then use the treble in exactly the same way as I’d use a passive tone control on a P bass.  Full off, I can out-dub Jah Wobble, full on I can out scoop and slap Flea.   I usually default to full,off, then bring in the treble until I have the cut and tone I need.

I have had 3EQ ‘Rays in my time, but,found I tended to overthink the detente and interaction of the three controls, could never get exactly the same tone as a 2EQ.   For me, the simpler the better.  YMMV of course...

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22 minutes ago, MattM said:

One of the big advantages of the 2EQ is that you can use it pretty much the same as a passive.    I always max the bass, then use the treble in exactly the same way as I’d use a passive tone control on a P bass.  Full off, I can out-dub Jah Wobble, full on I can out scoop and slap Flea.   I usually default to full,off, then bring in the treble until I have the cut and tone I need.

I have had 3EQ ‘Rays in my time, but,found I tended to overthink the detente and interaction of the three controls, could never get exactly the same tone as a 2EQ.   For me, the simpler the better.  YMMV of course...

Honestly, in my opinion, "full-on" on the 2EQ is awful. The treble completely takes over the bass control and it's a complete glass cannon with only high frequencies. Very harsh and sizzle...but if that's your thing, you do you.

2EQ is tricky to get but once you get a nice sound you can make small adjustments and it'll sound good.

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I concur, I would rarely, if ever, max out the bass and treble in a band situation. For me, it’s probably why a lot of folk think the ‘Rays a one-trick pony, yer average music shop try-out guy would default to maxing it out, and then playing Higher Ground...   You’re 100% correct in the joy of a 2EQ is in the fine adjustment to get a great tone.  👍

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I agree with most of what's been said here - however the mid range control on the pre 2018 Stingray 4 is not the equivalent of a 2 band when on centre detent - you need to cut it significantly to get towards that - the other advantage with the 3 band is giving you more control in a room with difficult acoustics, or to remain audible in a saturated mix (either live or recorded). 

Pity you're not down south as you could borrow my USA Sub 5. Sound wise, I think you'd be immediately smitten - it really does sound great. The white textured paint job and checker plate pickguard I absolutely love (probably because they're different from my regular Stingrays) - the neck with its painted finish, feels a little like my Bongo 5 (less a few frets!!)

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I bought a USA Stingray brand new in December and on discussion with my drummer this weekend we agreed I probably never need another bass. The feel of the neck is the big draw for me, the shape and finish are just perfect. Then there's the kick you get from the pickups, a big full sound, moreso than you'd ever get from a P. I tried the Sterling Ray 34 a few years back and probably didn't have enough experience of active EQ to get much out of it, but the US Stingray is just instinctive to play. If cash is an issue and you're not sure I'd always encourage to buy second hand, you'll save loads. I'm not niave enough to think I'd recover half the new cost of my US Stingray if I were to sell it now... Give it twenty five years maybe ;)

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On 01/07/2019 at 20:44, MattM said:

One of the big advantages of the 2EQ is that you can use it pretty much the same as a passive.    I always max the bass, then use the treble in exactly the same way as I’d use a passive tone control on a P bass.  Full off, I can out-dub Jah Wobble, full on I can out scoop and slap Flea.   I usually default to full,off, then bring in the treble until I have the cut and tone I need.

I have had 3EQ ‘Rays in my time, but,found I tended to overthink the detente and interaction of the three controls, could never get exactly the same tone as a 2EQ.   For me, the simpler the better.  YMMV of course...

 

Not a fan of the 'full on' 2EQ. It's just too bassy and not a little mid-scooped for my liking. Then again, I don't try to out-dub or out-scoop anyone... I don't think I'd have bought a Stingray if I only tried it with all controls on full, to be honest.

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