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Chienmortbb

9.6V Rechargeable Batteries

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Normal PP3 batteries are nominally 9v although almosy no manufacturere publishes battery capacity. The Duracell Bunny test is the closest. It would be greta to use rechargeables but most are nominally 8.4V. There are  now 9.6V recharcheables and I am thinking of trying some. Has anyone tried them?

 

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/9-6v-220mah-nimh-pp3-battery.html

 

or

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Self-Discharge-Precharged-Rechargeable-Batteries-MHR9VP/dp/B01FV0U5WG/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=9.6V+PP3%23&qid=1560604944&s=gateway&sr=8-9

 

 

 

 

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Here are some basics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes

Remember, that a cell may be able to put out lots of amperes in a short time or very little for a long time. These are very different and not directly comparable. You just have to make the choice.

A 9 V battery, yes, some years ago Duracell was the leader of the pack. They had the best performance volume wise, so capacity vs. volume. By the way, all batteries are not exactly the same size, although they should be. Every fraction of an inch has its effect on performance.

Because the ability to recharge a battery takes some space of the battery volume in terms of chemistry, rechargeable ones have clearly smaller capacity.

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Rechargeable batteries. Now there's a subject.

There isn't a voltage  problem with the 9-volt ones. They all measure 9 volts. In fact, most measure just over 10 volts when fully charged. The problem ones are the 1.5V ones, which only produce 1.2V. It's not normally a problem, but it can be for some devices that really need 1.5V - like my Canon camera, for example.

The only exception to the 9-volt rule are the Li-Ion ones just mentioned. I can only speak for the ones I have, of course, but both of them are max. 7.2V or so. If your device is OK with that, they do last for ages. But unless they've changed them recently, they won't produce 9 volts.

A handy tip from someone who's been using rechargeables for over a decade. The best rechargeables by a country mile are made by Eneloop (Panasonic).  I'd certainly not buy any more Energizers - most of mine failed after a year - I have pre-Eneloop Panasonics that are still going after ten years.

Another tip: Ikea sell Eneloops under their own brand for a fraction of the normal price. Google it. For some weird reason, Eneloop don't make 9V batteries though - which is a shame.

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On 30/06/2019 at 21:07, stevie said:

Rechargeable batteries. Now there's a subject.

There isn't a voltage  problem with the 9-volt ones. They all measure 9 volts. In fact, most measure just over 10 volts when fully charged. The problem ones are the 1.5V ones, which only produce 1.2V. It's not normally a problem, but it can be for some devices that really need 1.5V - like my Canon camera, for example.

The only exception to the 9-volt rule are the Li-Ion ones just mentioned. I can only speak for the ones I have, of course, but both of them are max. 7.2V or so. If your device is OK with that, they do last for ages. But unless they've changed them recently, they won't produce 9 volts.

A handy tip from someone who's been using rechargeables for over a decade. The best rechargeables by a country mile are made by Eneloop (Panasonic).  I'd certainly not buy any more Energizers - most of mine failed after a year - I have pre-Eneloop Panasonics that are still going after ten years.

Another tip: Ikea sell Eneloops under their own brand for a fraction of the normal price. Google it. For some weird reason, Eneloop don't make 9V batteries though - which is a shame.

Stevie,

what charger are you using? I have looked at the Panasonic BQ-C51, the BQ-C16 ( Smart charger) and BQ-CC55.

Or are you using a different brand charger?

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My main charger is an oldish Engergizer Universal smart charger. It's not bad, but doesn't give you much information and only lets you charge in pairs. I also have a Lidl one, which has more features (like showing you the percentage charge) but sometimes doesn't detect when a battery is full and overcharges it (bad!).

Both of them charge 9-volt batteries but only have an auto-shutoff for 1.5V ones. I use rechargeables a lot and would buy a decent smart charger if I could be confident I wasn't wasting my money. Unfortunately, it's a bit of a minefield.

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This has been interesting reading - I've just bought a Trustfire 9v off ebay on a whim. (I don't know why anybody would call a battery brand Trustfire... doesn't fill you with confidence does it?)

Charges with a USB cable and 550mAh apparently. Reviews seem to check out... so lets see. I hate 9v batteries as they tend to be naff for longevity... but this could be a simple solution to a higher capacity rechargeable.

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Bought EBL 9v Charger and 5x  EBL 600mAh batteries for my basses. Fenders ( USA P Deluxe, Stu Hamm USA Urge & MIM PJ ) all appear fine. However when I checked the Ernie Ball MusicMan site about my USA Sterling they were VERY specific about rechargeable batteries. Basically they stated that they ONLY recommended Duracell!! It seems that in their view the Lithium-Ion output more than 9v and the NiCad and NiMh  output only 7.2v. They did not recommend using any sort of rechargeable battery. I have to say that the EBL was quite a "snug" fit but it fitted Okay and seems to work fine. 

https://www.music-man.com/faq#category2

Has anyone had any issues with 9v batteries on MusicMan Basses?

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Posted (edited)
On 23/07/2019 at 16:35, EBS_freak said:

This has been interesting reading - I've just bought a Trustfire 9v off ebay on a whim. (I don't know why anybody would call a battery brand Trustfire... doesn't fill you with confidence does it?)

Charges with a USB cable and 550mAh apparently. Reviews seem to check out... so lets see. I hate 9v batteries as they tend to be naff for longevity... but this could be a simple solution to a higher capacity rechargeable.

How are you getting on with them? What voltage do they put out?

Edited by Chienmortbb

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

Bought EBL 9v Charger and 5x  EBL 600mAh batteries for my basses. Fenders ( USA P Deluxe, Stu Hamm USA Urge & MIM PJ ) all appear fine. However when I checked the Ernie Ball MusicMan site about my USA Sterling they were VERY specific about rechargeable batteries. Basically they stated that they ONLY recommended Duracell!! It seems that in their view the Lithium-Ion output more than 9v and the NiCad and NiMh  output only 7.2v. They did not recommend using any sort of rechargeable battery. I have to say that the EBL was quite a "snug" fit but it fitted Okay and seems to work fine. 

https://www.music-man.com/faq#category2

Has anyone had any issues with 9v batteries on MusicMan Basses?

The original PP3 had six 1.5V calls so 6 x 1.5V = 9V nominal

With rechargeables the cell voltage is 1.2V

As each cell is 1.2V so 6 x 1.2 = 7.2V  ( i have never seem a 7.2V 9V battrery.

BUT most manufacturers out in 7 cells to give 8.4V.

Some now put in 8 cells making 9.6V hence the title of the thread.

Most pre-amps use a rail splitting technique that effectively gives either 3.6V, 4.1V or 4.8V to each side of the circuit. 3.6V is close to the lower limit for many op-amps (op-amps are the basic building blocks for most onboard pre-amps).

 

So basically the are covering their backsides.

 

EBL are rated at 8.4 but quickly fall as can be seen by the chart below.

 

 

s-l1600.jpg

Edited by Chienmortbb
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26 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

How are you getting on with them? What voltage do they put out?

Seems alright - not done any die hard tests yet. I'll get the meter out at some point and measure it.

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On Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 13:04, stevie said:

My main charger is an oldish Engergizer Universal smart charger. It's not bad, but doesn't give you much information and only lets you charge in pairs. I also have a Lidl one, which has more features (like showing you the percentage charge) but sometimes doesn't detect when a battery is full and overcharges it (bad!).

Both of them charge 9-volt batteries but only have an auto-shutoff for 1.5V ones. I use rechargeables a lot and would buy a decent smart charger if I could be confident I wasn't wasting my money. Unfortunately, it's a bit of a minefield:)

I don't bother with rechargable "9v" (PP3 size) batteries any more. The way they're constructed - multiple 1.2v cells, or 3.6/3.7v cells for some less common cell chemistry - means that the individual cells can never be charged optimally, usually resulting in 1 or more cells being overcharged and killing the battery.

For AA/AAA 1.2v cells I've a Technoline BL700 charger.  It's really good - I've got Eneloop cells from pre-Panasonic days, that still perform as good as when they were new. I've also got a cheap clone that I bought from 7dayshop, and I can't tell the difference!

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7 minutes ago, barkin said:

I don't bother with rechargable "9v" (PP3 size) batteries any more. The way they're constructed - multiple 1.2v cells, or 3.6/3.7v cells for some less common cell chemistry - means that the individual cells can never be charged optimally, usually resulting in 1 or more cells being overcharged and killing the battery.

Rechargeables are still a more eco friendly way to go... despite the failures.

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I managed to get in touch with Trustfire and their 9V batteries are nominally 8.4V too. Although lower than a real 9V battery the 550mah capacity is 2-3 times more that a NiMh battery. I also have one in order so will report back soon. 

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Posted (edited)

Can confirm the 8.4v.

As a test (admittedly untechnical test), I had a couple of headphone amps running on the last gig and left them on after the gig and overnight. The Trustfire was still going in the morning... unlike the Duracell Durablock (170mAh) one.

Edited by EBS_freak

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Posted (edited)

I've had half a dozen 9v rechargeables on the go for several years and haven't had a failure yet. They're all decent brands, i.e. made in Japan and not China.

[Actually, scratch that. Some of them are made in China, but you need a magnifying glass to find that out.]

Edited by stevie

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Posted (edited)
On 19/08/2019 at 09:18, EBS_freak said:

Can confirm the 8.4v.

As a test (admittedly untechnical test), I had a couple of headphone amps running on the last gig and left them on after the gig and overnight. The Trustfire was still going in the morning... unlike the Duracell Durablock (170mAh) one.

My EBLs also last noticeably longer than the normal Ni-Mhi ones. Did you measure the 8.4V?

Edited by stevie

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58 minutes ago, stevie said:

Did you measure the 8.4V?

You know what, you've got me questioning myself now. 7.4v or 8.4v. I'm away from home at the moment (where battery is) - so can't check... but will charge up the thing and give it another bash and pay more attention to what it actually read so I can tell you properly!

Given it's Li-Poly I would guess it should be 7.4v and I've inadvertently posted a most unhelpful piece of information.

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I've just charged two of my 9V batteries and they measure 10.1V. They're Uniross ones, but a type they don't make any more.

I've just stuck an EBL in the charger and will report when it's charged. Because they last a long time, they also take a long time to charge.

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2 hours ago, stevie said:

I've just charged two of my 9V batteries and they measure 10.1V. They're Uniross ones, but a type they don't make any more.

I've just stuck an EBL in the charger and will report when it's charged. Because they last a long time, they also take a long time to charge.

What charger do you use for the EBLs? Do they need a specialist charger? I remember looking at the Trustfire AA sized stuff and was always put off by the cooky chargers... the only reason I tried the 9v Trustfire is because of the familiar USB socket.

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From my model airplane messing I can tell you that lipo batteries are a different animal to many, using a balance charger each cell is charged to a specific voltage and as close to each other as possible, they also need to be stored at a specific voltage, also if they drop below a certain voltage either in use or by being left unused then they are scrap. They should be charged in a fire proof container, I use a Pyrex pot with a lid and charge on top of the glass hob. If you cut into one you'll burn your house down too! 

Other than that they are good. 😀

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6 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

From my model airplane messing I can tell you that lipo batteries are a different animal to many, using a balance charger each cell is charged to a specific voltage and as close to each other as possible, they also need to be stored at a specific voltage, also if they drop below a certain voltage either in use or by being left unused then they are scrap. They should be charged in a fire proof container, I use a Pyrex pot with a lid and charge on top of the glass hob. If you cut into one you'll burn your house down too! 

Other than that they are good. 😀

Toys!

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My fully charged EBLs measure 8.44V. I used a cheap, simple, non-electronic charger without any problems. It seems to be quite difficult to overcharge 9-volt batteries - no idea why. The 1.5V ones get hot quite quickly if they are overcharged.

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