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Bobby D

Running a 6x10 and an 8x10 together

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Anyone had experience of doing this? I have a Super Bassman and an 8x10 Heritage. Was thinking of having a 6x10 as an option for a slightly smaller rig depending on van space and venue. But thinking that it might be fun to run them at the same time on occasion.

Can anyone far more knowledgeable than me give me any insight/advice?

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Firstly that would be cool, but you need to check the impedance of the amp and the cabs, 

If they are both 4 ohms, the head to run both would need to run down to 2 ohms.

unless your head has a line / power amp out, that way you could run one head into one cab and slave out into a power amp to run the second cab, something i have done in the past.

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7 minutes ago, Stofferson said:

Firstly that would be cool, but you need to check the impedance of the amp and the cabs, 

If they are both 4 ohms, the head to run both would need to run down to 2 ohms.

unless your head has a line / power amp out, that way you could run one head into one cab and slave out into a power amp to run the second cab, something i have done in the past.

Both cabs are 4ohms and the Bassman is switchable between 2/4/8 ohms. So that all checks out. Just wondered if the different character/voicing of the cabs side by side is likely to be a good thing or a bad thing I guess.

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16 minutes ago, Bobby D said:

Both cabs are 4ohms and the Bassman is switchable between 2/4/8 ohms. So that all checks out. Just wondered if the different character/voicing of the cabs side by side is likely to be a good thing or a bad thing I guess.

Cool so you can run both off the one head down to 2 ohms, 

Well, i'm no expert, what you will get is more air being pushed by more speakers so it will be "loud" as for voicing, there may be issues but you don't know until you do it. I'm sure speaker experts could add some insight into this. But from a safe power perspective there's no reason why you cant do it 🙂 

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2 hours ago, Bobby D said:

Anyone had experience of doing this? I have a Super Bassman and an 8x10 Heritage. Was thinking of having a 6x10 as an option for a slightly smaller rig depending on van space and venue. But thinking that it might be fun to run them at the same time on occasion.

Can anyone far more knowledgeable than me give me any insight/advice?

What size venues are you playing?

Does the bass go through the PA or do you rely on your rig for the audience to hear the bass?

If the bass goes into the PA where is the feed taken from? DI from the bass? DI from the amp? Mic on the cab?

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2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

What size venues are you playing?

Does the bass go through the PA or do you rely on your rig for the audience to hear the bass?

If the bass goes into the PA where is the feed taken from? DI from the bass? DI from the amp? Mic on the cab?

Various sizes across the UK. Overkill is part of the image though so having far more cabs than strictly necessary is par for the course.

I do go through the PA too and that's almost always done as DI from the amp.

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As I own a 6x10 I would like to point out that a 6x10 can be more difficult to move than an 8x10 unless it is a lightweight design. The length of an 8x10 makes it easier to lean into and slide into the back of a car without having to physically lift it up. A 6x10 is a shorter cab, and generally nearly as heavy as an 8x10. With heavyweight designs such as Ampeg SVT 6x10 or a Mesa Powerhouse 6x10, it is often a far bigger struggle to lean the 610 cab and slide it into the back of the car than the 8x10 equivalent because of the lower pivot point. I have a Mesa 6x10 and  I often have to lift the cab into the car/van. This is a pretty tough one job. I can manage it now at the age of 33 but I am aware that as a long term lighter solution is needed. However, a Mesa 6x10 was my dream cab for 15 years, so I at least want to enjoy it now that I finally have one. Can't imagine needing more than a single 6x10 or 8x10 on stage though. 

My thoughts, since you already have a 4 ohm 8x10, why not just buy two 8 ohm 4x10 cabs. Stacked they look much like an 8x10, with the benefit that: 

1. 2 4x10s should be easier to move than 1 6x10, on the basis that two manageable load ins are preferable to a single load in resembling a world's strongest man event; and

2. You have the option of using a single 4x10 for gigs that don't require a massive rig or where space is an issue.

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4 minutes ago, thodrik said:

As I own a 6x10 I would like to point out that a 6x10 can be more difficult to move than an 8x10 unless it is a lightweight design. The length of an 8x10 makes it easier to lean into and slide into the back of a car without having to physically lift it up. A 6x10 is a shorter cab, and generally nearly as heavy as an 8x10. With heavyweight designs such as Ampeg SVT 6x10 or a Mesa Powerhouse 6x10, it is often a far bigger struggle to lean the 610 cab and slide it into the back of the car than the 8x10 equivalent because of the lower pivot point. I have a Mesa 6x10 and  I often have to lift the cab into the car/van. This is a pretty tough one job. I can manage it now at the age of 33 but I am aware that as a long term lighter solution is needed. However, a Mesa 6x10 was my dream cab for 15 years, so I at least want to enjoy it now that I finally have one. Can't imagine needing more than a single 6x10 or 8x10 on stage though. 

My thoughts, since you already have a 4 ohm 8x10, why not just buy two 8 ohm 4x10 cabs. Stacked they look much like an 8x10, with the benefit that: 

1. 2 4x10s should be easier to move than 1 6x10, on the basis that two manageable load ins are preferable to a single load in resembling a world's strongest man event; and

2. You have the option of using a single 4x10 for gigs that don't require a massive rig or where space is an issue.

Both cabs will be going in wheeled "live in" roadcases and never travel by car, only in a large van, so shunting them round doesn't phase me too much. Easy access at home etc.And I'd never have to do it on my own. I'm not a fan of 4x10s tbh and there's zero difference footprint-wise to a 6x10. Plus adding in the expense of two roadcases vs one and the extra space they would take up kinda pushes that idea away. 

 

ALL gigs require a massive rig!!! Hahaha!! So I'd never use a 4x10 on it's own. I'm completely aware that it is ludicrously over the top but that's part of the fun :)

 

What i don't know is how they would sound together with one being ported with a horn and the other not. I guess I should just find out by doing it. While my back is still strong enough that is. (Undoubtedly on borrowed time with that though )

 

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4 minutes ago, Bobby D said:

Both cabs will be going in wheeled "live in" roadcases and never travel by car, only in a large van, so shunting them round doesn't phase me too much. Easy access at home etc.And I'd never have to do it on my own. I'm not a fan of 4x10s tbh and there's zero difference footprint-wise to a 6x10. Plus adding in the expense of two roadcases vs one and the extra space they would take up kinda pushes that idea away. 

 

ALL gigs require a massive rig!!! Hahaha!! So I'd never use a 4x10 on it's own. I'm completely aware that it is ludicrously over the top but that's part of the fun :)

 

What i don't know is how they would sound together with one being ported with a horn and the other not. I guess I should just find out by doing it. While my back is still strong enough that is. (Undoubtedly on borrowed time with that though )

 

In that case then, I would definitely just get a matching 8x10 and run with that. I personally wouldn't run two different cabs as part of the same rig. Phasing issues could make the sound or tone to vary markedly from venue to venue or depending on where you stand on the stage. Better to just get another matching cab for 'more of the same'. Matching giant cabs also looks cool.

If you want to get really over the top, run 2 8x10 stacked horizontally to give yourself a massive de facto 16x10 set up. Then run another 2 8x10s on the other side of the stage.  I have seen a few bands do this (alice in Chains being one). Generally large bands who I suspect were actually using the cabs as set dressing and they were actually using in ear monitors. 

The only drawback in tonal terms of using that many cabs is that you will have so much stage volume even with the amp on minimal settings. With a valve amp I like to have the option of driving the power amp a little bit. Not sure that would be physically possible when running 2 8x10s. 

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27 minutes ago, Bobby D said:

What i don't know is how they would sound together with one being ported with a horn and the other not. I guess I should just find out by doing it.
 

I'm going to hazard a guess that this might make more a difference than the number of speakers in each cab! The voicing of a ported cab is going to be very different from that of a sealed one, and the horn is going to mean a lot more treble thrown out of one cab but not the other (though you may be able to disable that).

If both cabs were sealed, I'd have thought the difference in tone between a 6 and an 8 would be negligible (ignoring the difference in volume from the extra two cones), but if you have a ported, horn-loaded cab on one side of your rig, and a sealed cab on the other, you might find your perceived tone changes quite drastically as you move around it onstage!

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"If you want to get really over the top, run 2 8x10 stacked horizontally to give yourself a massive de facto 16x10 set up"

You can already guess that this has crossed my mind :)

" Phasing issues could make the sound or tone to vary markedly from venue to venue or depending on where you stand on the stage"

This is what concerns me and is what I though might be the case. Although they would be side by side with the amp on the smaller cab.

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3 minutes ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

I'm going to hazard a guess that this might make more a difference than the number of speakers in each cab! The voicing of a ported cab is going to be very different from that of a sealed one, and the horn is going to mean a lot more treble thrown out of one cab but not the other (though you may be able to disable that).

If both cabs were sealed, I'd have thought the difference in tone between a 6 and an 8 would be negligible (ignoring the difference in volume from the extra two cones), but if you have a ported, horn-loaded cab on one side of your rig, and a sealed cab on the other, you might find your perceived tone changes quite drastically as you move around it onstage!

I think this is exactly what concerns me.

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Posted (edited)

If you're going for 'more is more' (which is just as valid as the minimalist thing!) then perhaps as much difference between the two is better. Maybe a Marshall 4x12 or something- less phasing between the top and bottom end, and a naturally raw, emphasised mid-range. It gets easier with two amps, of course- run the Super Bassman with a typical Fender 'scooped' voicing, then whack a 50 watt Marshall on 0-10-0 into a 4x12 alongside! All the fun of Overlarge with at least some of the issues eased back!

That said there will still be phasing issues and variation as you move about the stage. While this kind of rig will never be DI'd, point-source perfect, it can still be awesome, and that is the thing to weigh up. If a mountain of amps is all part if the fun, then do a few peaks and troughs in the response matter? Maybe they'll help as much as hinder- is Lemmy's bass sound technically any good? Is the snarl which drives in on the intro to Smoke On The Water a 'proper' bass sound? Are Sunn O))) not badass because their piles of amps aren't all matching?

Technical correctness is generally very important in sound- but rules are there to be broken, and some of the coolest stuff can come from too, too much at times. If you're after a giant, kick-arse rig, there may be a compromise or two, bit you'll still have a giant, kick-arse rig. Might just be worth it!

Edited by Jus Lukin
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10 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

14x10? Are you the bass player with Hotblack Desiato?

No

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Some uncomfortable truths...

If your bass is going into the PA and DI'd from the amp, then at anything other than very small (<100) venues and for people directly at the front of the stage at larger ones, the contribution your cabs are going to make to what the audience hears is zero, nada, zilch.

If the visuals of having lots of cabs on stage is important to the look of the band by all means take both of them, but just plug in one. 

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Do you need more volume than the 810 can give? Is this for show? I'd put the 610 next to the 810 and not bother to plug it in.

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And if I wasn't going to plug it in, I'd make life easier for everyone involved and take the speakers out...

image.png.a645e0b61201c38523869dc91b5a07f7.png

Just sayin... 😁

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18 minutes ago, Muzz said:

And if I wasn't going to plug it in, I'd make life easier for everyone involved and take the speakers out...

image.png.a645e0b61201c38523869dc91b5a07f7.png

Just sayin... 😁

The OP has got the cabs in wheeled flight cases. I don't think taking the speakers out of one of them is going to do much for weight or portability.

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Maybe he wouldn't need a seriously heavy wheeled flight case for an empty cab...hey presto, another 75lbs saved... 😉

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