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Mind your P's and J's


Sambrook

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Apologies if this has been done to death - I've just discovered why so many rave about the P bass. I had always thought, why have a single pickup when you can have two? 

Just acquired a Vintage V4 from Bill (Troubadour of this parish), and it sounds glorious. 

My question, then, is this :- is the fundamental tone of a P bass negatively affected by having a J pickup added? 

And if not, why are all P's not Pj's? 

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8 minutes ago, Sambrook said:

My question, then, is this :- is the fundamental tone of a P bass negatively affected by having a J pickup added?

No, but what problem are you trying to fix? You have a bass that you like, a lot, and now you want to change it to something that you don't know how it sounds. Why?

I added a J pickup to my P bass. I was happy to embrace the "more is more, and more is always better", philosophy and found it was largely a waste of my cash. The benefits didn't match my outlay. The routing was expensive and the great sound of the J pickup never materialised. OK it was slightly better but not the night and day improvement I was expecting.

What are you hearing that would be improved by the addition of a J pickup? I'd suggest a better first step would be to upgrade the P pickup and move from a good P bass sound to a great one, before you consider anything else.

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The extra pickup and pot does affect the loading of the P pickup and change the sound ever so slightly. In the same way that your bass will sound brighter with 500K pots vs 250K. Many purists prefer a solo P for this reason, others fit a toggle switch, others don't notice or don't care about the difference!

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If I've learnt anything here (and at the Bass Bashes) is that nobody, and that includes bass players, can tell the difference in tone on basses - even though people claim that they can.

Check the results from the last SE Bash, people couldn't even identify there own instruments.

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1 hour ago, No lust in Jazz said:

It's all down to personal taste, but I've despised the J pick up in every PJ variants that I've tried - so, for me and maybe only me the J pick up is wasted

This ^ 

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Soloed J pickups never sound great in my hands, even though I've heard others make them sound great.

P + J blended didn't quite do it for me either until I tried a Yamaha BB - the J pickup is so beefy it's louder than the P, which gives it a much growlier tone like a Jazz when using both pickups.

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I love my Sandberg PJ.

for my rock and Indie covers band I tend to blend to around 90% on the P pickup for that classic rock sound.

If I'm playing funk or Chilli's then I bias to around 65% on the J pickup for a bit more treble and growl.

I also have a Fender Deluxe PJ but I rarely use the J pickup on that bass and keep it biased 100% to the P.  I'm sure there are many factors to the difference i.e. pickups, preamp, la Bella flats, but one of the reasons I liked it is that the Fender PJs have neck profiles more akin to those on a J bass than a traditional straight P.

I also suspect the reverse P pickup design on the Sandberg means the PJ configuration works better.

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I've got a PJ on one of my basses and it spends 90% of the time solo on the P. I find if it's the P sound that you love, having the option to blend in some J just dilutes the goodness. I'd happily have just the single pickup, but the bass is a stone cold keeper, so I'm also happy to have the j. 

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Yes, loading on the P pickup with two volumes or a pan seem to suck the life out of both pickup on all the basses I’ve tried - and I’ve had a few (Fender P bass Deluxe V, Yamaha BB etc). Not tried one with a pickup selector switch - if it truly isolates the two pickups it should do the trick, but I suppose you then lose the both pickups tone. In theory it’s the best of both worlds as I prefer the P bass pickup sound to the J neck pickup, but much prefer a j bridge pickup to a MM, as I prefer more bite from the bridge pickup.

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20 hours ago, PJ-Bassist said:

 

I also have a Fender Deluxe PJ but I rarely use the J pickup on that bass and keep it biased 100% to the P.  I'm sure there are many factors to the difference i.e. pickups, preamp, la Bella flats, but one of the reasons I liked it is that the Fender PJs have neck profiles more akin to those on a J bass than a traditional straight P.

 

I could have written exactly the same comment.

The slim neck profile and light swamp ash body makes the deluxe the perfect precision for me.

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I play a passive PJ, admittedly 90% P but when the band plays an instrumental I'll often switch to the J to cut through more, then back to the thumpy P to keep out of the way of the vocals. Could do the same with the tone control, or amp EQ but I can leave everything set up as it was this way.

 

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On 26/04/2019 at 13:55, Sambrook said:

Apologies if this has been done to death - I've just discovered why so many rave about the P bass. I had always thought, why have a single pickup when you can have two? 

Just acquired a Vintage V4 from Bill (Troubadour of this parish), and it sounds glorious. 

My question, then, is this :- is the fundamental tone of a P bass negatively affected by having a J pickup added? 

And if not, why are all P's not Pj's? 

 

Depending on how the pickups are wired, there's an interaction that affects the sound of the P soloed so it's not exactly how it would sound on its own... just how much that matters it varies: some think it's a deal breaker and others don't care. 

The J adds to the tonal palette available, but just how interesting is that depends, again, on personal preference.

Both pickups on can sound pretty good, but it sometimes it's such a mid-scooped sound that I have no real use for it. It depends on the actual pickups, and how they're balanced. I find a bridge J alone to be too thin for me to want to use it on its own, so when I have a PJ, what I do is set the P pickup first so that it sounds balanced across strings and the way I want it (pickup distance from the strings can change things a lot). Then, I just adjust the height of the J pickup until it sounds nice when I have both pickups on together. Sometimes it means the J will be very weak and it's only adding a bit, other times it's louder... I don't care, as I will never use it alone.

That's just what I do, not a 'you must do this' rule.

I prefer a more powerful pickup at the bridge, to go with the P. Another P works well as long as it's reversed (the DG coil being away from the bridge), a dual J can be very nice, and a big MM style humbucker also works well (my preferred option).

Why aren't all P actually PJ? Because there's enough people who prefer it to be just a P.

I have a single pickup Stingray, and I'll never buy a dual pickup one. Why? Because the single pickup one does what I want it to do and I like the simplicity (plus the extra pickup gets in the way for me, but that's just me).

As with a lot of other things here... it comes down to personal preference really, and there's no one single superior solution.

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Interesting.  I love that Jaco-soloed-bridge Jazz tone.  It is odd to think that this couldn't be done successfully with a PJ setup. However, ...

I'd like a P-bass but with 2 jazz pickups and no Precision pickup.  Why?  Well, I have several Ps and love them.  I want a 60/61 Jazz bass but these, for some reason, seem to be quite expensive.  I have considered "adjusting" a cheap pre-CBS Precision - obviously, one that's been messed about - and slotting in a couple of bare-knuckle Jazz PUs along with 2 tone and 2 volume pots a la 1960/61 Jazzes.  This then enables a full range of tones from a lightweight and compact "Jazz", ie a Precision!  Then you choose between the P-bass or the J-ish-bass.

Start the slaying ...

Peace

Davo

 

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10 hours ago, Davo-London said:

Interesting.  I love that Jaco-soloed-bridge Jazz tone.  It is odd to think that this couldn't be done successfully with a PJ setup. However, ...

I'd like a P-bass but with 2 jazz pickups and no Precision pickup.  Why?  Well, I have several Ps and love them.  I want a 60/61 Jazz bass but these, for some reason, seem to be quite expensive.  I have considered "adjusting" a cheap pre-CBS Precision - obviously, one that's been messed about - and slotting in a couple of bare-knuckle Jazz PUs along with 2 tone and 2 volume pots a la 1960/61 Jazzes.  This then enables a full range of tones from a lightweight and compact "Jazz", ie a Precision!  Then you choose between the P-bass or the J-ish-bass.

Start the slaying ...

Peace

Davo

 

 

What slaying?

I think you are completely right! :)

I used to own this (ordered exactly like that):

IMG_8309.jpg?dl=1

 

And I turned this:

IMAG4373.jpg?dl=1

into this:

20161021_004844.jpg?dl=1

 

Although now it looks like this:

20161228_191841_09.jpg?dl=1

 

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20 minutes ago, StevieE said:

@mcnach can I ask where you got that thumb rest from please? Cheers 

 

I had it made.

I once bought an OLP MM2 (Stingray clone) that had a metal thumbrest just like it at the P pickup spot, stuck to the pickguard (strong double-sided sticky tape, it can be removed without leaving marks but it stays on strongly enough that you won't shift it during regular use). I removed it, and put it on a Precision at the MM pickup spot, as I'm used to resting my thumb on the Stingray's pickup...

A few people here liked the idea, and someone who had access to a laser cutter made a bunch of them based on a scan I made, in black acrylic. That's what's on this bass. I had a few spare ones that have been given away over the past few years, and now I only have those stuck on my basses, otherwise I'd offer to send you one.

 

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3 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

I had it made.

I once bought an OLP MM2 (Stingray clone) that had a metal thumbrest just like it at the P pickup spot, stuck to the pickguard (strong double-sided sticky tape, it can be removed without leaving marks but it stays on strongly enough that you won't shift it during regular use). I removed it, and put it on a Precision at the MM pickup spot, as I'm used to resting my thumb on the Stingray's pickup...

A few people here liked the idea, and someone who had access to a laser cutter made a bunch of them based on a scan I made, in black acrylic. That's what's on this bass. I had a few spare ones that have been given away over the past few years, and now I only have those stuck on my basses, otherwise I'd offer to send you one.

 

Cool, thanks for that. I've been playing my P today and thinking I could do with a little rest just where a jazz pup would be, then I see your post. 

Think I may see if I can get one 3d printed 👍🏻

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10 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

What slaying?

I think you are completely right! :)

I used to own this (ordered exactly like that):

IMG_8309.jpg?dl=1

 

And I turned this:

IMAG4373.jpg?dl=1

into this:

20161021_004844.jpg?dl=1

 

Although now it looks like this:

20161228_191841_09.jpg?dl=1

McNach.  Tell me about the transition from P to JJ and then why you moved the neck pick-up?  Do you have sound samples from both JJ arrangements?  This is very pertinent to me!

Regards

Davo

 

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