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Al Krow

Two of the very best D class amps available today?

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Thousands of tons (tonnes) of old school dimmers (resistance, auto-transformer/variac, and Triac/SCr based) have been scrapped in the last 10 years, as have tens of thousands of fixtures (instruments) due to the acceptance of LED dimming. The improvements in LED fixtures is really mind blowing, I designed one of the first high brightness room lighting systems about 15 years ago (called house lights in the theatre world) using at the time "exotic" 1 watt devices. There were almost 600 of them on custom made, plug together strips that were powered by redundant switchmode power supplies and zoned DC PWM dimmers. This room (a large custom home theatre for somebody in the movie theatre business) went from needing 4000 watts of halogen lights to only 600 watts of LED lighting. 

This was before there were any practical codes for LED architectural lighting, it was a proof of concept system that we built to commercial/industrial standards in order to pass design code review and inspection. LEDs are now twice as bright per watt, but this system is still in full operation without a service call in probably 10 years now.

[/off-thread]

Edited by agedhorse

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On 07/04/2020 at 03:26, agedhorse said:

The triac and inverse parallel dimmers are based on reverse phase control of the 60Hz (or 50Hz for many of you) AC waveform. There is a PWM version that modulates the AC waveform by slicing up the waveform into tiny slices and eliminating slices throughout  the waveform. There's also a type that converts the AC to DC and then PWM modulates this DC, either into an AC waveform or into a DC equivalent signal. Different companies have different ways of doing it (and different patents).

LED lamps are usually dimmed by converting the AC to DC, then PWM'ing the DC voltage based on the RMS current rather than on the voltage since LED brightness is proportional to current through the device and independent of voltage across the device.

Stop that, I hate AC/DC 🤣

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I made a project of my home lighting switching all lamps tp LED. In what we call the studio, my Baby Grand and rehearsal spot are in that room, the difference from incandescent is astounding. We only have one non LED lamp now and only 'cos the touch dimmer will not work properly with LED lamps.

Y'know Andy I truly believe that you have done just about everything!!! LOL

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Also contemplating between these 2, I have a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2 and a Vanderkley MNT212 but fancy a change.

Bass wise, GB Rumour & GB Spitfare both 4's.

Slightly leaning towards the Mesa but in the words of Mavis from Coronation Street 'I don't really know'. 

 

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@Sk1 - congrats on getting a WD800! A very elite club here in the UK!

If you fancy posting a review when you've had a chance to put it through its paces, that would be very welcome. Be interested in what you've had before amp wise and how it stacks up against them?

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On 19/03/2019 at 16:08, bassfan said:

I’d go B/amp over forte, purely as it has more features. 

I really want a B|amp, but can't demo one in person. 

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22 minutes ago, cord.scott said:

I really want a B|amp, but can't demo one in person. 

I waited 18months. Don’t regret it for a second. I bought a very cool Bluetooth footswitch which allows you to essentially have a 3rd preset channel. The new software BFT (Big Fat Tube) sounds really great. I had an email yesterday from @Bergantino Audio with a new software update and a separate cabinet feature “vintage”. I’ll be trying that this week. 😃

@Dood has done a great online demo, on you tube. 
If you are close to Essex you are welcome to come and have a blast through mine, post lockdown  

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3 hours ago, bassfan said:

I waited 18months. Don’t regret it for a second. I bought a very cool Bluetooth footswitch which allows you to essentially have a 3rd preset channel. The new software BFT (Big Fat Tube) sounds really great. I had an email yesterday from @Bergantino Audio with a new software update and a separate cabinet feature “vintage”. I’ll be trying that this week. 😃

@Dood has done a great online demo, on you tube. 
If you are close to Essex you are welcome to come and have a blast through mine, post lockdown  

Thank you @bassfan ! I’ve two full reviews now available @cord.scott and am also happy to answer any questions about the amp. If you “do” Facebook, there’s a Bergantino user group too.

I’m gearing up to record some more videos in which the B|Amp will feature soon, too!

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4 hours ago, Dood said:

Thank you @bassfan ! I’ve two full reviews now available @cord.scott and am also happy to answer any questions about the amp. If you “do” Facebook, there’s a Bergantino user group too.

I’m gearing up to record some more videos in which the B|Amp will feature soon, too!

Cool. I think I've seen this video. As I understand it, the "Q" widths on the 4 band eq filters are adjustable as well right? 

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8 hours ago, bassfan said:

I waited 18months. Don’t regret it for a second. I bought a very cool Bluetooth footswitch which allows you to essentially have a 3rd preset channel. The new software BFT (Big Fat Tube) sounds really great. I had an email yesterday from @Bergantino Audio with a new software update and a separate cabinet feature “vintage”. I’ll be trying that this week. 😃

@Dood has done a great online demo, on you tube. 
If you are close to Essex you are welcome to come and have a blast through mine, post lockdown  

Thanks appreciate the offer but I'm a few thousand miles away lol. The BFT is an overdrive?

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3 hours ago, cord.scott said:

Thanks appreciate the offer but I'm a few thousand miles away lol. The BFT is an overdrive?

Oh! We’ll use the price of the flight to put towards the BAmp. 😂 

No it’s not an overdrive  (it does have a built overdrive you can use along with a compressor and fuzz) it’s more of a tweak to the software to make it sound like a tube amp. Of course there is a version of the OS without this which can be loaded. The vintage cab profile is a separate option within the cab profiles that will always be available in the software. 

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6 hours ago, bassfan said:

Oh! We’ll use the price of the flight to put towards the BAmp. 😂 

No it’s not an overdrive  (it does have a built overdrive you can use along with a compressor and fuzz) it’s more of a tweak to the software to make it sound like a tube amp. Of course there is a version of the OS without this which can be loaded. The vintage cab profile is a separate option within the cab profiles that will always be available in the software. 

I see, so its more like a whole OS update that a preset? Curious to hear it.

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Just now, cord.scott said:

I see, so its more like a whole OS update that a preset? Curious to hear it.

Yes. 👍🏻 Sounds great. Of course you can change the OS if it’s not to your taste. 
 

Very versatile 😃

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Since class D became a thing and all the powersections in bass amps started sounding exactly the same the only thing that matters is headroom and how good the preamp was designed so it won't screw up your signal.

On top of that, making your tone with the amp is pretty oldskool since bass players have been starting to use more and more pedals that shape your tone (and there's amazingly good sounding stuff out there that goes on your pedalboard!). What many players do is make their tone before it hitting the amp, and even having a D.I. that incorporates bass cabinet impulse responses to make life very easy for FOH. This makes having a flexibile EQ and built-in fx like compressor, drive etc. on the amplifier pretty much obsolete.

That said, I do use an amp that sounds different since it isn't class D but full valve. Still, my EQ on that is completely flat except when I need to make up for any bad room acoustics (ie take the boominess out if needed).

I am not saying having the best possible class D amp is a bad idea, just that making your sound before it hits any amp is seen more often then it used to.

So just how important is the amp, and specifically its preamp section in your rig at the end of the day?

My 2p.

 

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5 hours ago, DiMarco said:

Since class D became a thing and all the powersections in bass amps started sounding exactly the same the only thing that matters is headroom and how good the preamp was designed so it won't screw up your signal.

On top of that, making your tone with the amp is pretty oldskool since bass players have been starting to use more and more pedals that shape your tone (and there's amazingly good sounding stuff out there that goes on your pedalboard!). What many players do is make their tone before it hitting the amp, and even having a D.I. that incorporates bass cabinet impulse responses to make life very easy for FOH. This makes having a flexibile EQ and built-in fx like compressor, drive etc. on the amplifier pretty much obsolete.

That said, I do use an amp that sounds different since it isn't class D but full valve. Still, my EQ on that is completely flat except when I need to make up for any bad room acoustics (ie take the boominess out if needed).

I am not saying having the best possible class D amp is a bad idea, just that making your sound before it hits any amp is seen more often then it used to.

So just how important is the amp, and specifically its preamp section in your rig at the end of the day?

My 2p.

 

I get your broader point, but while lots of class D amps use the same power module but the power sections aren't exactly the same. 

My Mesa d800+, my Aguilar AG 700, and the mesa WD-800 all use the same ice power module. But they have some thing built into the power section around those modules.

But the d800+ and the WD-800 have tube simulation built into their power sections according to their designer. You can run them down to 2ohm. The Aguilar goes down to 2.67 only and no tube emulation in the power section. The tube emulation (the d800+ plus model has it in the preamp as well, and the WD actually has tube) means they don't sound the same. Heck the WD even has adjustable damping. 

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7 hours ago, DiMarco said:

Since class D became a thing and all the powersections in bass amps started sounding exactly the same the only thing that matters is headroom and how good the preamp was designed so it won't screw up your signal.

On top of that, making your tone with the amp is pretty oldskool since bass players have been starting to use more and more pedals that shape your tone (and there's amazingly good sounding stuff out there that goes on your pedalboard!). What many players do is make their tone before it hitting the amp, and even having a D.I. that incorporates bass cabinet impulse responses to make life very easy for FOH. This makes having a flexibile EQ and built-in fx like compressor, drive etc. on the amplifier pretty much obsolete.

That said, I do use an amp that sounds different since it isn't class D but full valve. Still, my EQ on that is completely flat except when I need to make up for any bad room acoustics (ie take the boominess out if needed).

I am not saying having the best possible class D amp is a bad idea, just that making your sound before it hits any amp is seen more often then it used to.

So just how important is the amp, and specifically its preamp section in your rig at the end of the day?

My 2p.

 

Fairly important if you are using the preamp to shape your sound.

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11 hours ago, DiMarco said:

Since class D became a thing and all the powersections in bass amps started sounding exactly the same the only thing that matters is headroom and how good the preamp was designed so it won't screw up your signal.

 

Good point but I like to keep things simple and don't use pedals - although I've tried quite a few.

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