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Al Krow

Two of the very best D class amps available today?

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2 hours ago, chris_b said:

. . . . what does it sound like and is it loud enough?

Who cares about what it sounds like? 

If it's loud enough it's gonna be good for metal. At the end of the day, surely that's all that matters? (And football).

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, la bam said:

Looks like the Quilter might be class B.

No it’s an ICEPOWER 700AS1 I BELIEVE pure class d

Edited by Chienmortbb

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12 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

No it’s an ICEPOWER 700AS1 I BELIEVE pure class d

Well must admit, I'd have been a bit gobsmacked if it was anything other than a Class D amp.

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13 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

No it’s an ICEPOWER 700AS1 I BELIEVE pure class d

According to Pat Quilter it's a modified Class D module from the QSC K Series powered cabinet line, built on the QSC production line in California. QSC originally = Quilter Sound Company.

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8 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:
On 08/05/2019 at 17:41, Stub Mandrel said:

Personally, although class D amps lend themselves to direct digital control, I wouldn't class them as any more digital than PWM motor controllers

The point about Class D is that it uses Pulse Width Modulation. If is modulated then amplified and demodulated ( yes it is a form of Modem)  I would argue that the PWM output is analogous to the input signal In the same way FM Radio is. It never enters the digital domain. 

I think that's the point I was trying to make? 🙂

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13 hours ago, Passinwind said:

According to Pat Quilter it's a modified Class D module from the QSC K Series powered cabinet line, built on the QSC production line in California. QSC originally = Quilter Sound Company.

I  Knew you would COYD the me of I got it wrong Charlie. Thanks.

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On 08/05/2019 at 16:42, Stub Mandrel said:

That makes my light switch digital control... I suppose I work it with my finger!

Well, yes it does - doubly digital! But seriously, unless it's a dimmer, then it is, to my mind at least, a digital device!

 

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Posted (edited)
On 10/05/2019 at 13:00, Chienmortbb said:

The point about Class D is that it uses Pulse Width Modulation. If is modulated then amplified and demodulated ( yes it is a form of Modem)  I would argue that the PWM output is analogous to the input signal In the same way FM Radio is. It never enters the digital domain.

FM radio is not really a good comaprison. The incoming radio signal is still a sine wave, but with the frquency constantly changing. This is then converted to an an audio frequency analogue signal, without (necessarily) a digital stage - it is never converted to and an on/off signal, whereas the output of a class D amp, or a PWM motor drive is.

(When I say output I mean the output from the switching devices)

Most modern motor drives have DSP controllers anyway. I  really don't now  if the Class D amps are DSP controlled or analogue.

 

Edited by Count Bassy

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10 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

Most modern motor drives have DSP controllers anyway. I  really don't now  if the Class D amps are DSP controlled or analogue.

 

Almost universally analog(ue) controlled.

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I've just read this entire thread and am none the wiser for it. I still have idea what difference it makes whether your amp is class A, B, D or X, Y, Z. Mostly a matter how heavy the damn thing is, as far as I can gather. 

Neither do I know why some people can't spell dog properly, and what the dog has to do with amps, but then I've been around Basschat long enough not to let things I don't understand bother me!

The main thing that puzzles me is why people are so hung up on amps, basically just a box that you plug your bass into to make it loud enough to hear on stage. All the real power is in the PA, and no matter how much we spend and tweak to get our 'perfect tone', the audience is only going to hear the soundman's idea of perfect tone.

And for anyone who protests that they they are not going through the PA because they only play small gigs,  then why do you need 800 watts? 

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34 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

I've just read this entire thread and am none the wiser for it. I still have idea what difference it makes whether your amp is class A, B, D or X, Y, Z. Mostly a matter how heavy the damn thing is, as far as I can gather. 

Neither do I know why some people can't spell dog properly, and what the dog has to do with amps, but then I've been around Basschat long enough not to let things I don't understand bother me!

The main thing that puzzles me is why people are so hung up on amps, basically just a box that you plug your bass into to make it loud enough to hear on stage. All the real power is in the PA, and no matter how much we spend and tweak to get our 'perfect tone', the audience is only going to hear the soundman's idea of perfect tone.

And for anyone who protests that they they are not going through the PA because they only play small gigs,  then why do you need 800 watts? 

Nailed it. 

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I know my obsession with all bass gear is just that - an irrational obsession. But it's fun reading the pointy heads and those who wish they knew as much arguing the toss though! 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, FinnDave said:

And for anyone who protests that they they are not going through the PA because they only play small gigs,  then why do you need 800 watts? 

Entirely depends on your set up. We have two RCF 310As as our PA and put vocals, acoustic guitar and sax through that. The PA is lightweight and very portable. 

Bass and lead guitar are through backline. Works very well for both pub gigs and functions. 

For me, around 500W+ D class works a treat, gives me enough headroom without needing to thrash my amp every gig. My current D class head delivers 450W through an 8 ohm cab (perfect for pubs) and has the ability to go to twice that for functions via a VK210 LNT 4ohms, where we are providing all the kit. It sounds great. 

I've done the sums and the weight of our PA and bass rig (which is what I am responsible for transporting) is actually less than just a PA that is capable of handling bass as well as my bass rig can (e.g 2 x RCF 745As).

Edited by Al Krow

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2 hours ago, FinnDave said:

I've just read this entire thread and am none the wiser for it. I still have idea what difference it makes whether your amp is class A, B, D or X, Y, Z. Mostly a matter how heavy the damn thing is, as far as I can gather. 

Neither do I know why some people can't spell dog properly, and what the dog has to do with amps, but then I've been around Basschat long enough not to let things I don't understand bother me!

The main thing that puzzles me is why people are so hung up on amps, basically just a box that you plug your bass into to make it loud enough to hear on stage. All the real power is in the PA, and no matter how much we spend and tweak to get our 'perfect tone', the audience is only going to hear the soundman's idea of perfect tone.

And for anyone who protests that they they are not going through the PA because they only play small gigs,  then why do you need 800 watts? 

Dog is dUg as in dUg Pinnick (or doug if you want to spell it that way) who is a legendary bassist vocalist and has an immense tone.

Look him up if you want or not.

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2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Entirely depends on your set up. We have two RCF 310As as our PA and put vocals, acoustic guitar and sax through that. The PA is lightweight and very portable. 

Bass and lead guitar are through backline. Works very well for both pub gigs and functions. 

For me, around 500W+ D class works a treat, gives me enough headroom without needing to thrash my amp every gig. My current D class head delivers 450W through an 8 ohm cab (perfect for pubs) and has the ability to go to twice that for functions via a VK210 LNT 4ohms, where we are providing all the kit. It sounds great. 

I've done the sums and the weight of our PA and bass rig (which is what I am responsible for transporting) is actually less than just a PA that is capable of handling bass as well as my bass rig can (e.g 2 x RCF 745As).

Gigs where I am going through the PA means we are using the venue's PA, not our own, so the transport is the same either way. I think the only gig I've played with my current band that relied on backline was earlier this year when we played in Cockfosters, which was a small function room at a football club. Next few gigs are Hebden Bridge (venue has good PA and sound man), a festival in Plauen, Germany (venue providing PA and backline), SoL festival in Kent (PA & sound crew employed by the organisers) and Tavistock (venue has large PA and sound man). For  all of these except Plauen, I will be using my Ashdown ABM 600 (or the Rootmaster 800, depending on how far I need to carry my gear!) through my Barefaced Super Twin, with DI from the amp. I could get away with less power, but the drummers like to be able to hear the bass, and with two of them, that's a fair bit of stage to cover.

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15 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

 For  all of these except Plauen, I will be using my Ashdown ABM 600 (or the Rootmaster 800, depending on how far I need to carry my gear!) through my Barefaced Super Twin, with DI from the amp. I could get away with less power, but the drummers like to be able to hear the bass, and with two of them, that's a fair bit of stage to cover.

For these gigs with good/large PA & sound person provided, shouldn't the drummers hear the bass via their own monitors, rather than via your Super Twin?

Which way do you turn the volume dial on your amp if (say) the drummer wants more bass, but the singer wants less bass?

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Posted (edited)

@FinnDave where the venue has a decent sound system including monitors and a competent sound engineer, I turn up with just my bass and a lead! 

I may pull out the stops and take along a Zoom B1X-4, which fits into my gig bag, going forward... :)

Edited by Al Krow
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On 10/05/2019 at 19:38, Passinwind said:

Source, please?

Not sure if it means its class b, but this is from the official spec sheet:

Approvals: 
UL recognized, tested to conform to FCC/CE limits for Class B devices.

 

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47 minutes ago, la bam said:

Not sure if it means its class b, but this is from the official spec sheet:

Approvals: 
UL recognized, tested to conform to FCC/CE limits for Class B devices.

 

That's a different class B. Also note my bolded 'and' just using pulses alone does not make it 'digital'.

Quote

Digital Device. “An unintentional radiator (device or system) that generates and uses timing signals or pulses at a rate in excess of 9,000 pulses (cycles) per second and uses digital techniques; inclusive of telephone equipment that uses digital techniques or any device or system that generates and uses radio frequency energy for the purpose of performing data processing functions such as electronics computations, operations, transformations, recording, filing, sorting, storage, retrieval, or transfer. A radio frequency device that is specifically subject to an emanation requirement in any other FCC Rule part or an intentional radiator subject to Subpart C of this part that contains a digital device is not subject to the standards for digital devices, provided the digital device is used only the enable operation of the radio frequency device and the digital device does not control additional functions or capabilities.”


Intentional radiator. “A device that intentionally generates and emits radio frequency energy by radiation or induction.”


Class A Digital Device. “A digital device that is marketed for use in a commercial,
industrial or business environment, exclusive of a device which is marketed for use by
the general public or is intended to be used in the home.”


Class B Digital Device. “A digital device that is marketed for use in a residential
environment notwithstanding use in commercial, business and industrial environments.
Examples of such devices included, but are not limited to, personal computers,
calculators, and similar electronics devices that are marketed for use by the general
public."

 

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1 hour ago, jrixn1 said:

For these gigs with good/large PA & sound person provided, shouldn't the drummers hear the bass via their own monitors, rather than via your Super Twin?

Which way do you turn the volume dial on your amp if (say) the drummer wants more bass, but the singer wants less bass?

I just set up with the amp between the drummers and adjust the level so they are happy and so am I. If the others want more or less bass, then that is then care of my the monitor mix, as you said.

 

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1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

@FinnDave where the venue has a decent sound system including monitors and a competent sound engineer, I turn up with just my bass and a lead! 

I may pull out the stops and take along a Zoom B1X-4, which fits into my gig bag, going forward... :)

I think having piles of amps on the stage is kind of expected for a Grateful Dead tribute, to be honest. Ideally, we would have a replica Wall, but even the Dead couldn't afford the costs of running that!

 

Grateful Dead.jpg

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46 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

@FinnDave Supertwins are soooooooo good!!

Yep, can't argue with that! Especially mine, of course :) as it is serial number S001

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You take the award today - nice work!

I got hold of a Gen3 at a great price a while ago

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