Are 7 beats as good as 8?

[Phil Starr]

I've just had to learn a set list for a new band. Lots of straight eight beats in their songs (all covers) but because I'm comparing what I play with the originals I've noticed I'm more often than not I'm playing the first beat as a quarter note followed by six eighth beats. Pretty much every time there is a chord change but sometimes keeping that rhythm in. I've probably developed this habit with bands that don't practice properly at home as a way of emphasising the chord changes 'look guys here it is'. This band are great, they show up to rehearsals having learned the songs but they are saying I'm particularly easy to play with. Up to now I've kind of dismissed that sort of comment as people being kind, I mean I appreciate the kindness a lot but I know my limitations as a bassist

Does anyone else have this habit, or any others they've noticed?

[chris_b]

So you're emphasising the One. Has anyone else noticed you do this?

I would imagine it sounds fine, but a variety of approaches would probably sound better.

I have far too many (bad) habits to list here!

[Leonard Smalls]

55 minutes ago, chris_b said:

So you're emphasising the One. Has anyone else noticed you do this?

I would imagine it sounds fine, but a variety of approaches would probably sound better.

But nothing sounds better than playing On The One!

 

[Lozz196]

Sounds like adding feeling to the song to me, may not be technically perfect but live music has to have a “feel” to it and this sounds a good way of getting it.

[Phil Starr]

8 hours ago, chris_b said:

So you're emphasising the One. Has anyone else noticed you do this?

I would imagine it sounds fine, but a variety of approaches would probably sound better.

I have far too many (bad) habits to list here!

Nobody has ever said anything as specific as that. Generally the comments are that I make it easy for the band, I'd kind of assumed that was because I keep it simple but maybe I've been subconsciously laying the emphasis on the One for years.

Go on what other habits have people developed, I'm surely not the only one.

[Mykesbass]

On 18/03/2019 at 07:53, Phil Starr said:

 I'm playing the first beat as a quarter note followed by six eighth beats.

Coincidence that this has come up as a topic. Now this might seem a complete de-rail, but stick with me. 6 Music are playing a track by Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs. I took notice as, as a regular 6 Music listener it sounded way outside of the station's usual choice. Last night the DJ called them Pig times 7 which prompted me into trying to say the full name. Guess what? It is really easy. Scans perfectly over a count of four. Probably working exactly the same as your 7 over 8. Go on, give it a try!

[paul_c2]

Regarding the title of this thread - probably worth not confusing beats with (played) notes.

[Tobe]

On 18/03/2019 at 07:53, Phil Starr said:

I've just had to learn a set list for a new band. Lots of straight eight beats in their songs (all covers) but because I'm comparing what I play with the originals I've noticed I'm more often than not I'm playing the first beat as a quarter note followed by six eighth beats. Pretty much every time there is a chord change but sometimes keeping that rhythm in. I've probably developed this habit with bands that don't practice properly at home as a way of emphasising the chord changes 'look guys here it is'. This band are great, they show up to rehearsals having learned the songs but they are saying I'm particularly easy to play with. Up to now I've kind of dismissed that sort of comment as people being kind, I mean I appreciate the kindness a lot but I know my limitations as a bassist

Does anyone else have this habit, or any others they've noticed?

Nothing wrong with that at all. Any amount of notes are valid over a measure, given they fit the tune played. so however you wanna slice the cake     
 

[Tobe]

3 hours ago, Mykesbass said:

Coincidence that this has come up as a topic. Now this might seem a complete de-rail, but stick with me. 6 Music are playing a track by Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs. I took notice as, as a regular 6 Music listener it sounded way outside of the station's usual choice. Last night the DJ called them Pig times 7 which prompted me into trying to say the full name. Guess what? It is really easy. Scans perfectly over a count of four. Probably working exactly the same as your 7 over 8. Go on, give it a try!

What you're doing here is ending the bar on beat 4.  but the measure doesn't there. you need to count the  'up on four instead of ending the bar on 4.  the measure is still running!  and if you continually say 'pigs' as 8th notes, they'll be 8 of them obviously and not 7.

 
1 + 2 + 3 + 4   = 7/8   so your 1 of the next bar would be 'up on 4, unless ur resting it.  
 the whole bar is  1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +   = 8/8 

[paul_c2]

7 over 8?

1+2+3+4 = 7/8

1+2+3+4 = 8/8

Sorry I haven't got a clue what you're on about, can you put it into actual standard musical terms?

[Tobe]

10 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

7 over 8?

1+2+3+4 = 7/8

1+2+3+4 = 8/8

Sorry I haven't got a clue what you're on about, can you put it into actual standard musical terms?

That's not what I wrote!    If you count  each 8th note of a whole bar..   1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +   you can see there is 8.     when you end the bar on 4 rather than '4 +  you've only had 7 of the 8 notes that complete the bar!   so you either have to rest an 8th note at the end of the bar, or start not on the 1 of the next bar!  hope this helps!?  

Edited March 19, 2019 by Tobe

[paul_c2]

....Which is why its better to speak the same language!

[Tobe]

2 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

....Which is why its better to speak the same language!

how do you mean?

 

[paul_c2]

 

[Tobe]

12 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

 

.. and that's exactly what I said (without pictures), but you misquoted me.  

If the rest on your first example wasn't there though, that's where my point was with 7/8    

[paul_c2]

7/8 means something significantly different in most musician's minds, than what I think you intend it to mean.

[Tobe]

1 minute ago, paul_c2 said:

7/8 means something significantly different in most musician's minds, than what I think you intend it to mean.

7/8  = 7 x 8th notes. that's what it means.   we're not talking time signatures here, although you appear to be!   If you wanna read my response again to Mykesbass, you will see we are talking about a bar of 4  and 7 x 8th notes been played over it.     you are misunderstanding me and misquoting me also.      

[Stub Mandrel]

My only thought is playing exactly the same rhythm for each song is will become boring for you in the long run and the band will get lazy!

You don't need to be complex, but look for other ways to accent the beat, for example playing a different 'connecting' note as that last quaver to signal each chord change, or changing the dynamics so you play 'straight eights' but the first note is struck harder so it's louder.

If the songs are covers, have you looked them up on a tab site? There are usually  some straightforward fills or riffs that help round out the bass in most popular songs and it can be really satisfying to nail them.

Funnily enough I'm listening to 'Dancing in the Dark' as I type this - all straight 8th notes on the root, except (according to Ultimate Guitar) one single 'leading' note in the bridge. A good example of what I mean by a 'connecting' note. But beware too much of that and you'll end up playing walking basslines:

[Bridge]

G|----------------|----------------|----------------|----------------|

D|----------------|----------------|2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-|4-4-4-4-4-4-4---|

A|----------------|2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-|----------------|--------------2-|

E|4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-|----------------|----------------|----------------|



G|----------------|----------------|----------------|----------------|

D|----------------|----------------|2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-|4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-|

A|----------------|2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-|----------------|----------------|

E|4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-|----------------|----------------|----------------|

 

[Lozz196]

Thinking about this my tendency is to play 6 notes in a 4 note bar, much like:

1, 2/3, 4/5, 6

Giving a bit of a rhythmic feel to it. Unleashing my inner Lemmy methinks.

[Ricky 4000]

I've done some embarrassing things and bad dancing in my time, but nothing on this scale!

Hit me on the one!

and the two.

and the three.

and the four.

😄

Edited March 19, 2019 by Ricky 4000

[Stub Mandrel]

11 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

've done some embarrassing things and bad dancing in my time, but nothing on this scale!

Oh woe.

Seeing Springsteen look so young makes me feel so old!

[dannybuoy]

Nothing wrong with that approach whatsoever. Unless you are doing it for every song, in which case you should try out some new ideas!

[Phil Starr]

On 19/03/2019 at 21:07, Lozz196 said:

Thinking about this my tendency is to play 6 notes in a 4 note bar, much like:

1, 2/3, 4/5, 6

Giving a bit of a rhythmic feel to it. Unleashing my inner Lemmy methinks.

Thanks Lozz this is more like the sort of response I was hoping for. 

I suppose I've graduated to being an 'intermediate' level bassist. My rhythmic work is fairly secure and I've always found that side of things fairly easy, well easier than thinking up and playing improvised melodic elements where I'm still firmly stuck in the pentatonic over one octave What I actually play rhythmically will depend upon the song and what the singer and Drummer are doing so learning new songs for me is mainly being familiar with the changes and structure of the song. I've been playing with a couple of new (to me) bands recently and a lot of our songs, all covers, have a driving eight beat. Killers, Stereophonics, AC/DC and so on. I suppose having to learn a lot of songs in a short time and being a new bassist with a couple of different bands who are focussing on their new bassist has made me a bit more conscious of how I am playing. Most of the tab you see is written as a straight 8 even when it patently isn't so I've been listening to try and work out where the original bassists are placing their emphasis and if they are dropping notes or just playing unevenly.

I hadn't realised I had a rhythmic style, I've unknowingly dropped into playing 1-hold 2 and 3 and 4 and every chord change in my initial run through. Playing live I think I am putting in just the right amount of variation to fit the song and what everyone else is doing. (Straight eights when the drummer drifts off tempo ) Turns out I may be running in more of a groove than I thought, that may be OK as I say people find me easy to play with and audiences manage to dance without tripping on the rhythm.

I suppose I wanted to know how other bassists approach rhythmic variations, we tend to talk about notes more than beats on BC. 

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I suppose I wanted to know how other bassists approach rhythmic variations, we tend to talk about notes more than beats on BC. 

As someone who is NOT lighting fast I try to syncopate my rhythym to compensate.

Why not try a shuffle as a way to spice it up a bit? Anything by Status Quo will do 😉 Or the Wanderer by Dion.