Owen Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 One of the guys my wife teaches with has a DB to sell. I used to teach him and it turns out that that his father in law is the brother of the owner of the DB. I was in the County Youth orch with this guy 35 years ago. The bass has not been played for 30 years. It is stamped Boosey and Hawkes Excelsior. It has it's fair share of relicing. There are numerous cracks but these look to have been properly repaired and patched. It is not ply and was clearly a 3 stringer which at leasr gives us a 100 year old + time frame. It is strung with Spiro and plays really nicely. If I did not crave the B I could be more than happy with it. I polished mine with chrome polish and a buffer wheel on a drill and it came up lovely. I reckon this one would as well. They want to sell it, and of course the big question is what do we reckon it is worth? They are not expecting to retire on the proceeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainbass65 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I haven't got a clue but I wouldn't be surprised if a luthier bought it for £500-£700, did it up, added a string, and sold it on for £1.5k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 It has already been converted into a 4 string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Have you got a couple of photos of it from a distance Owen? Preferably showing the whole bass in one view? No idea what it might be worth - but a nice over-view might help give someone an idea.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Good call! I will get onto that later. Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Is the bass bar still attached? The cracks in the top and the f-hole sinkage look like there might be serious work required, and the crack in the back looks like it runs under where the soundpost would be sitting - I think the important information is really what the inside of the instrument looks like, is it stable, does any repair work look well executed or is it a patchwork of bodge jobs. I would take it to a good DB luthier and get an informed opinion, there is a lot of information that can't be divined by looking at photos. As it stands, does it sound good pizz/arco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Did they store that next to a radiator in the winter and in a hot loft in the summer? Quite a bit of carnage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 That's been around the block a few times. I'm guessing that it's a 4/4 rather than a 3/4? You say it plays well, Owen, but what does it sound like - drop dead gorgeous or just another DB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 If it's clearly stamped "Boosey & Hawkes", it has to be 30s or later, as it looks like the two companies merged in 1930. That makes the 3-string aspect puzzling, as it seems a little late for that. Could it be a 4-string that's had the tuners modified for some other reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 It is not actually clearly stamped Boosey and Hawkes. I just went with what I was told because I did not trust my eyesight. It is just Excelsior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 It has been extensively patched inside to glue up cracks. There is a patch under the soundpost. The bassbar is there. The repair work looks good to me. And they all seem to be sound. It sounds good. It is set up with spiros so great for that spiro pizz sound. Arco and spiro is not anything that has ever floated my boat but given a nice set of arco strings I believe it would sound lovely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 18 hours ago, Beer of the Bass said: If it's clearly stamped "Boosey & Hawkes", it has to be 30s or later, as it looks like the two companies merged in 1930. That makes the 3-string aspect puzzling, as it seems a little late for that. Could it be a 4-string that's had the tuners modified for some other reason? Where did you run into the B+H/Excelsior info? I cannot find anything out about Excelsior at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Finding stuff about "Excelsior" is just too easy ... it was quite widely used as a model name and over a long period. When I did a quickish Google yesterday I was swamped with relatively modern B+H Excelsior DBs and also with other musical instruments labelled Excelsior. Couldn't find anything at all about 3-stringers though. This might actually be one of those rare occasions where old-fashioned reference books are more useful than online searches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, owen said: Where did you run into the B+H/Excelsior info? I cannot find anything out about Excelsior at all. I was going by the "Boosey & Hawkes" rather than the Excelsior model name. I was aware that Hawkes and Boosey had been two separate companies originally, and just googled for the company history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 Thanks all. I have clocked the name in searches but this bass is not one like the ones that come up. It is all solid and flame-y and ting so it a different kettle of fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Happy Jack said: ......When I did a quickish Google yesterday I was swamped with relatively modern B+H Excelsior DBs and also with other musical instruments labelled Excelsior. Couldn't find anything at all about 3-stringers though. This might actually be one of those rare occasions where old-fashioned reference books are more useful than online searches. Just pointing out - other search engines are available Jack Re the 3 string dilemma - it just occurred to me, I wonder if someone back-dated this bass from a 4 string to a 3 some time ago? Seems an odd thing to do, but you never know..... as people sometimes do the oddest things What details are there, that point this bass out to once have been a 3 stringer BTW? PS. It was actually reading the Who quote legend below Happy Jack's Name - "I look pretty young" that made me think about the back-dating possibility.... So if my suggestion sounds at all daft..... blame HJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Daft thing is, that quote doesn't make sense anyway. If you've been backdated, surely that makes you older ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 21 minutes ago, Marc S said: What details are there, that point this bass out to once have been a 3 stringer BTW? There are 3 machine heads which are the same and the D machine head is clearly different - it is an afterthought on the brass faceplate. I could well be wrong on this next bit, but the spacing of the original machines on both sides is also saying 3 stringer - wide apart on one side and the single one being in the center on the other side. I am entirely comfortable with my 3 stringer hypothesis which does put it into older bass territory. My 5 string has a new neck and the original was a 3 string to 4 string conversion. Here is a 3 stringer I found - with guts as well (for the TONE!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Started to watch the clip, then realised that it's an entire program lasting 46 minutes. Any chance of some edited highlights, Owen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 The bit that puzzles me is that geared wooden pegs were more common in the 3-string era, especially on Germanic basses (which this looks like due to the outside linings among other details). From the style of tuners I'd have guessed at this being somewhere in the first half of the 20th century (though that's very much a guess), when 4 strings were standard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart3442 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Have you taken it to a Luthier to be appraised? That would be my first port of call...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) It seems as though b&h carried on selling much the same basses after the merger as Hawkes was selling before ... And those are well regarded; BUT most of them now very beat up having spent time in millitary bands ( and in the hands of the army repair shop - hence the weird tuners). A good Hawkes bass can cost £1000s .. My guess is this is a good bass that's had a hard life and which needs £2000 + of work done on it ( my bass had the front off, repairs replaced and a new bass bar in 1999 at a cost - to the insurers - of £1500 - but it been dropped and had started to rattle ). THEN it might be worth .. £4000 + ? Worthwhile for a dealer / repairer to buy and do up, but maybe not something you'd buy to play. Hawk round a few dealers and they will probably tell you it's worthless, restore it and put it up for £7000. An independent restorer might be more honest if you say you want to keep it and ask about repair costs. Edited June 9, 2019 by NickA spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 The owner is going to take it to Sam Wells in Manchester for some grounded real world advice. I will update the thread when I know more. It is a very nice instrument and, although extensively repaired, is structurally sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 If the repairs are as sound as you say, I'd be tempted to put a nice new set of tuners on it, and a new bridge, and leave the rest well alone. I don't know why, but something about that bass is saying "1930s" to me, very loudly. It might well be absolutely lovely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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