Newfoundfreedom Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, leftybassman392 said: I think you may be doing yourself a disservice. As I said earlier, it’s all a question of choosing the right adjective. The way you’re saying it kind of suggests that ‘professional’ is an unspoken-but-assumed part of the description. Not so. What’s wrong with using ‘amateur’, ‘hobby’, ‘part-time’, ‘budding’ or any of half a dozen other words? Seriously, people sometimes get properly exercised over this business, and I really don’t think that’s the right way to see it. Another very good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upside downer Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Deedee said: I think the football analogy is a good one by taking it one stage further in that we're all footballers (musos), but some of us are in the Sunday morning leagues and some are in the Champions League Spot on. I'm a Sunday morning centre half of a bassist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybemart Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 38 minutes ago, bassace said: Surely it’s all down to your principal/sole source of income. We do tend to define ourselves through our jobs, and others do too. This shouldn't be the case, but it is. I've decided that when I'm retired (not too many years) I'm finally going to call myself a musician, whatever anybody else says! The other point is that if you're self taught and never had access to formal lessons when you started, can't read musical notation etc, in a way you always tend to feel a bit inferior, not a proper musician. However, these days, you have easy access to so much stuff on line (e.g. Scotts Bass Lessons etc) that give you the opportunity to really get into the theory, learn to read if you want to etc. All this builds your confidence alongside all the gigs you do,........ so yes, one day soon I'm going to be a moosician.😊.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barking Spiders Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, maybemart said: We do tend to define ourselves through our jobs, and others do too. This shouldn't be the case, but it is. I've decided that when I'm retired (not too many years) I'm finally going to call myself a musician, whatever anybody else says! The other point is that if you're self taught and never had access to formal lessons when you started, can't read musical notation etc, in a way you always tend to feel a bit inferior, not a proper musician. However, these days, you have easy access to so much stuff on line (e.g. Scotts Bass Lessons etc) that give you the opportunity to really get into the theory, learn to read if you want to etc. All this builds your confidence alongside all the gigs you do,........ so yes, one day soon I'm going to be a moosician.😊.. I'm puzzled by the fact we're defined by the jobs we do. Step back and think about it rationally. It's fine to say 'I'm an engineer' etc during work hours but we can't describe ourselves as that when we're not at work so what are we then? Yet one of many examples of us having to pigeon-hole ourselves. I'm definitely not a musician as I've pretty modest sight reading skills, have never depended on playing for my living and only want to play stuff I like. I could never be like a lot of you guys and be prepared to play sets where I didn't even like some of the tunes on the playlist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) As was pointed out above somewhere, people really are overthinking this. If you can pick up a musical instrument and make it do what it's supposed to, then, at that moment you are a musician. At other times you could be a parent or an IT guy or a total wombler. and Barking Spiders - I really don't think you need to have sight reading skills to be a musician unless yo want to play in some sort of orchestral ensemble. Plenty of folk that make a living at paying tunes have never learnt to read the dots. edit . "wombler" hah! what teenage boys get up to in their quiet moments Edited March 8, 2019 by jacko 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Not sure about being a musician. But I do consider myself a 'pro' as I play a P Bass. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Low End Bee said: Not sure about being a musician. But I do consider myself a 'pro' as I play a P Bass. In that case, thankfully I'll never be a pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 When you can play with other musicians, and enjoy it. If the resulting noise sounds good to you then it is good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Low End Bee said: Not sure about being a musician. But I do consider myself a 'pro' as I play a P Bass. Suits me nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) You want to see the arguments about 'engineer'. In mainland Europe 'engineer' is a protected title, like 'Doctor'. Over here our 'technicians' are 'engineers' and we have plenty of 'hobby engineers'. the professional institutes have given up the cause and rely on chartered engineer to make the distinction. In plain english, a musician is just someone who make music. I like the idea that ANYONE can be a musician simply by making music - it's too glorious a gift to keep it to an elite few. Worrying you aren't good enough is classic imposter syndrome - I know I suffer the salmons of self-doubt myself despite having played plenty of gigs in my younger days. There's no professional body to decide who is and isn't (thank goodness) but there are things like graded exams and the obvious distinctions of pro and amateur for those who like to classify, but the question for any classification is how useful is it? Clearly it makes sense to identify professional musicians as those who make a living (or part of a living) from their craft. What about the bands who (truth be told) don't make enough to cover the costs of strings, gear petrol and rehearsal space? (P.S. it might be useful for mere mortals in smaller bands to know you can turn over (i.e. total income) £1,000 a year without having to pay tax on it from minor trading. That's £4K a year for a four-piece so I doubt most small bands playing a pub or small club once a month or so need to worry about tax). Edited March 8, 2019 by Stub Mandrel Wish I could write in English.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Hmmm....good question. I think I waited until other people called me a musician. I don't think I've ever called myself a musician? Even when I was making my living doing it. People would ask me what I did and I would say I played bass in a band. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I'm a motorcyclist but I don't make my living from it. I might have an advanced qualification in it but that doesn't make me any more of a motorcyclist than someone who'd doing their CBT. So I think I'm probably a musician, as I can play a coherent tune on an instrument of my choice. I can't read dots and I know a little bit of musical theory, but I have written songs. If you think that calling yourself a musician denigrates those who have years of training - what is the threshold for being a musician? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky 4000 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 7 hours ago, maybemart said: We do tend to define ourselves through our jobs, and others do too. This shouldn't be the case, but it is. I've decided that when I'm retired (not too many years) I'm finally going to call myself a musician, whatever anybody else says! The other point is that if you're self taught and never had access to formal lessons when you started, can't read musical notation etc, in a way you always tend to feel a bit inferior, not a proper musician. However, these days, you have easy access to so much stuff on line (e.g. Scotts Bass Lessons etc) that give you the opportunity to really get into the theory, learn to read if you want to etc. All this builds your confidence alongside all the gigs you do,........ so yes, one day soon I'm going to be a moosician.😊.. If you become a retired musician, does that mean you used to be a musician but you're not anymore? Or does it mean you weren't, but you are since you retired? A truely pointless question. TBH I'm just trying out a new keyboard. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oZZma Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 7 hours ago, maybemart said: We do tend to define ourselves through our jobs, and others do too. Which is and utterly imbecile social convention, especially when you think that most people don't choose their jobs and they often hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJpullchord Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Grade five or above and you’re a musician. only jokin’! If you create music, you is a musician. Art is subjective innit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Ricky 4000 said: ? A truely pointless question. TBH I'm just trying out a new keyboard. At least you got the ‘s’ key working again.... Back on topic.... I can drive a car. If the car is full of people, I am the driver. But outside the car, I wouldn’t call myself ‘a driver’. That, to me, is someone who does this for a living. A trucker, a taxi driver, a chauffeur. So, when I am doing music, I am at that moment a musician. But when asked to define myself, I wouldn’t use the term musician. And, to be fair, nor would anyone who’s heard me play.... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 12 hours ago, tauzero said: If you think that calling yourself a musician denigrates those who have years of training - what is the threshold for being a musician? I don't know. That's precisely the point of the question. I don't think there's any right or wrong answer. But I'm interested in where other people feel that threshold is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 19 hours ago, maybemart said: We do tend to define ourselves through our jobs, and others do too. This shouldn't be the case, but it is. This is something I absolutely loathe. It's almost always the first question a person asks when you meet them and I find it incredibly rude. Trying to define someone by how they put food on the table is just nonsense. In fact very few people know how I earn a living because it's a question I refuse to answer. As I live a very nice life outside the UK and make my living from home it drives people insane because I refuse to tell them how I do it. Which suits me just fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 11 hours ago, DJpullchord said: Grade five or above and you’re a musician. Oh God no! That means my drummer is officially a musician. I'll never live that one down. 😂 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oZZma Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said: This is something I absolutely loathe. It's almost always the first question a person asks when you meet them and I find it incredibly rude. Trying to define someone by how they put food on the table is just nonsense. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyman Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said: This is something I absolutely loathe. It's almost always the first question a person asks when you meet them and I find it incredibly rude. Trying to define someone by how they put food on the table is just nonsense. In fact very few people know how I earn a living because it's a question I refuse to answer. As I live a very nice life outside the UK and make my living from home it drives people insane because I refuse to tell them how I do it. Which suits me just fine. Well, now I’m intrigued..... Go on, I won’t tell anybody.... Edited March 9, 2019 by Skinnyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Skinnyman said: Well, now I’m intrigued..... Go on, I won’t tell anybody.... You see that's the thing. It's only intriguing and mysterious as long as people don't know. If I started to explain it peoples eyes would glaze over and they'd soon lose interest. I just tell people I earn my living online and let their imaginations run wild. I could almost guarantee pretty much anything they come up with is more interesting than the reality. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyman Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said: You see that's the thing. It's only intriguing and mysterious as long as people don't know. If I started to explain it peoples eyes would glaze over and they'd soon lose interest. I just tell people I earn my living online and let their imaginations run wild. I could almost guarantee pretty much anything they come up with is more interesting than the reality. So, International Man Of Mystery it shall be. I just tell people I'm Chief Wringer-Out for a one-armed window cleaner. The trick is to walk away while they're still thinking it through.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said: Oh God no! That means my drummer is officially a musician. I'll never live that one down. 😂 Oxford Reading Scheme Grades don't count 🙂 Confession, I did music up until 11 in school. I had violin lessons. I've been playing guitar since the 70s. A few days ago I signed up for the Open University introductory music course which is supposed to take you up to level 3 equivalent. I got as far as the bit where it explains the notes on the bass and treble clefs and expects you to memorise them. So far I can do GABC on the treble clef and middle C. That's where I got stuck 25 years ago... I genuinely think I've got musical dyslexia. Edited March 9, 2019 by Stub Mandrel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 It's when you can play a whole song without looking at the fretboard Or... When you can play through a song you've heard but not rehearsed before Or... When you can play a tune that someone else can recognise without being told what it is Or... Any other definition you care to come up with I think the footballer analogy is a good one. It's when either you or someone else regards you as a musician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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