Painy Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) I've just purchased a 100w valve guitar head and 2x12 guitar cab (rated at 160w RMS continuous and is sealed) with the intention of combining it with my existing bass amp (ashdown abm500 & 2 x Aguilar DB112 cabs) but could really do with some advice so I don't blow the speakers in the guitar cab (especially as I'm playing a 5 string). I know the obvious thing to use to protect the guitar speakers would be a low pass filter or a crossover for a true bi-amp setup but as I don't have one I'm wondering if simply turning the bass down on the guitar head would reduce the potentially damaging lows sufficiently i.e. Is this also likely to sufficiently reduce the frequencies below the eq centre or would I just be cutting around say 100hz but still letting the damaging stuff down at 40hz through? Edited March 31, 2019 by Painy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 The reason for using two sets is still unclear to me but whatever. The g-word tube amp has a transformer that already is a HPF (not an LPF), and that is the reason why the amp can not go extremely low. And your idea of lowering bass is a good idea. If you use your effects on that g-word amp, the system may be very interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Do you know / can you find out what the guitar cab's frequency response is and how low it's been designed to handle? Maybe a spec sheet online? Agreed that cutting the bass should help - although where you'll be cutting most will depend on where your bass EQ is centred on the amp. [Aside: as itu hints at you're actually after a high pass filter (to let only the higher frequencies pass) rather than a low pass filter. The low B is at 31 Hz the low E at 41 Hz but quite a few folk start applying HPFs to start cutting at around 80 Hz i.e. the first harmonic of the low E or even higher. Personally I use a Thumpinator which cuts everything below the low B to get rid of low end 'crud']. So what's the plan - are you going for a Royal Blood set up? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 Sorry, did actually mean to type high pass (I fully get difference between high and low pass i.e. that a high pass filter allows the highs to pass through while cutting off the lows). 😄 It's not so much the full Royal Blood thing - I'm thinking more along the lines of dUg Pinnick to be honest. Basically I just fancy some real valve break up and grit in the highs and mids but with big, deep, smooth, clean lows underneath it. Unfortunately the frequency response doesn't seem to have been published for the cab as far as I can find so no joy there. If anyone can find it out though that would be great - it's a Laney IRT212. The head incidentally is a Laney VH100R. Thanks for your thoughts guys. 🙂👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I think you've already sussed the solution - a frequency splitter to send the highs to the guitar cab and the lows to your bass cab. https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/KMA-Machines-Tyler-Frequency-Splitter/282O Trouble is this pedal costs more than the guitar cab you've just bought! But it would be ideal... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 That does look ideal. Unfortunately I may have to wait a bit before Mrs Painy sanctions any further expenditure. 😞 Frustratingly the head won't actually be in my possession until Sunday morning so I have to wait until then to try it out and see what works. In the meantime I was bored at work today so killed some time by mocking up what it'll all look like all set up. At least even if it doesn't sound any good it should at least look pretty intimidating. 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbuzz Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I used to use this kind of a setup many years ago when I was young/strong/foolish enough to want to carry it around. It sounded great, so I fully endorse and encourage your plan! My setup used a Trace Elliot GP11 Mk4 Preamp as its front end, which had a built-in crossover with outputs which split the signal at 250 Hz. The high end went to a Marshall valve head driving a 2x10", and the low end went to a solid-state power amp driving two 1x15"s. The Trace preamp was a brilliant piece of gear - great sounding and ultra-reliable. They come up for sale fairly frequently and really cheap. Alternatively there are HPF pedals available such as this one from Broughton, who seem to be well-regarded: https://www.broughtonaudio.com/product-page/high-pass-filter But I think you can feel free to have a go at just cutting out the bass from the high-end side using the tone controls on the amp. Your ears will tell you if the cab is struggling. Good luck with your rig experiments - it's sure to be lots of fun! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) Used The Tyler, it’s a decent work around for a one cab solution, but will be slightly different to a dUg sound if that is what you are truly after, not in a bad way, just different. The key to that pedal is keeping a very strong and a clean low and folding in distortion or sound modulation into either of the FX loops at your choice. Easy small package for a dUg sound or typ sound is the excellent DP3X pedal which is very back friendly, then of course you have the dedicated 2 channel amps, Tech21 Landmark 300/600, the 1969, VT1000, or indeed dUg Ultrabass 1000. You can of course get a cheaper signal splitter to cleave off a signal and send it to the guitar cab. You have to remember that whilst it may seem counterintuitive dUg actually used to send the higher frequency signals to a bass cab. edited for typo’s - early morning typing before me cuppa! Edited March 1, 2019 by Cuzzie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) Right, after picking up a Rolls Tiny 2 Way Crossover from Kevsy71 the rig is now operational and had its first outing with the band last night. Have to say it sounded absolutely massive, fat and deep in the lows but with real clarity and definition in the highs. This is only a mobile phone recording so not the best quality audio obviously but does give some idea of how it sits in the mix (although, as always, obviously not through mobile phone or laptop speakers). Edited March 31, 2019 by Painy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Yes yes yes A proper song and a proper bass sound - get in there my son! Band sounds good, great singer as the man wothbthe most discerning taste on BC it’s a big 👍🏾 From me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Listening through headphones the bass sounds really good! +1 to Cuzzie's comments - I actually prefer your guitar based cover to the original Toto keys version 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Sacrilege- ToTo are practically untouchable as brilliant as this is! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Ye gods, that bottom end is monstrous! Me likey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 36 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: Sacrilege- ToTo are practically untouchable as brilliant as this is! You and my guitarist would bond instantaneously. You'll be telling me you like "Gold" next.... nooooooo! 😁😃 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Toto was my fave in wizard of Oz and yes, Gold is right up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 Thanks for the kind words folks. If you fancy hearing a little more there's a brief snippet here from the intro to Get the Funk Out where you can hear the bass with just the drums behind it - jazz bass with a pick here though rather than the P with fingers. And if you're not bored already, a cover of Knights of Cydonia here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 That goes to prove Bass gets ladies on the dance floor we rule 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: That goes to prove Bass gets ladies on the dance floor we rule Damn straight! 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Bloody love that song as well - my first gig un-chaperoned was the pornografitti tour - gigs have gotten better since then...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) great stuff but I thought the ladies and gents doors were bloody great speakers to start with! Edited April 2, 2019 by skidder652003 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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