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Musicman20

New Mesa Walkabout-style high powered amp WD-800....and new cabs...

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I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer does not give retailers a RRP (recommended retail price) for its products. But @agedhorse if you're telling us that Mesa does no such thing and European retailers have all decided on £1,299 or thereabouts, so be it.

There must be a big opportunity for just one to break tanks here. Amazed that none of them are doing so. 

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On 13/03/2019 at 22:32, Al Krow said:

Ok the ridiculously high pricing is down to Bassdirect rather than Mesa, if that's the case.

I was always under the impression - based on comments over the years on TB - that Mesa rules pricing with an iron fist (no discounting, etc.)..?

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6 hours ago, agedhorse said:

Seriously, I doubt two retailers could even agree on where to eat lunch. 

 

Dunno, but OT the big three or retail chains in the uk have formed their own buying group to cut out the distributer and try and compete with European internet retailers like Bax and Thomann. 

For what it’s worth if I were amp shopping with a stack of cash my top two I would want to try would be the WD800 and the Berg B|amp

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31 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

For what it’s worth if I were amp shopping with a stack of cash my top two I would want to try would be the WD800 and the Berg B|amp

+1 on that! And if I had change a Db751 for good measure. 

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6 minutes ago, bassfan said:

+1 on that! And if I had change a Db751 for good measure. 

Yeah but then I would try to lift it and settle on the wd800

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10 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

Presumably he’s asking if retailers who sell Mesa have organised themselves into one big price fixing team ? 

That was indeed what I was asking, thank you Luke

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1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

I was always under the impression - based on comments over the years on TB - that Mesa rules pricing with an iron fist (no discounting, etc.)..?

And that is what I has always assumed was the case, thank you WoT :)

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1 hour ago, Beedster said:

And that is what I has always assumed was the case, thank you WoT :)

As I posted earlier. That was my experience with Mesa Boogie. They rigidly controlled the prices and the dealer (in my case, the Bass  Centre) had no say in the matter.

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18 minutes ago, chris_b said:

As I posted earlier. That was my experience with Mesa Boogie. They rigidly controlled the prices and the dealer (in my case, the Bass  Centre) had no say in the matter.

Which is exact opposite of what agedhorse is saying. You both can't be right. I have no idea who is though! 

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50 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Which is exact opposite of what agedhorse is saying. You both can't be right. I have no idea who is though! 

Odd, isn't it!

Well maybe we are both right. My experience was nearly 20 years ago but, while I don't spend much time checking the shop price of gear, in the intervening years I have never seen new Mesa gear at discounted prices. If anyone has please enlighten me.

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Yep, and when the pricing was mentioned on TB (frequently over the years), I've never seen it be challenged.

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16 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Odd, isn't it!

Well maybe we are both right. My experience was nearly 20 years ago but, while I don't spend much time checking the shop price of gear, in the intervening years I have never seen new Mesa gear at discounted prices. If anyone has please enlighten me.

I have seen ex-demo discounts for sure. 

But nothing comparable to the usual massive Gibson discount of the previous year's Les Paul models!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, chris_b said:

As I posted earlier. That was my experience with Mesa Boogie. They rigidly controlled the prices and the dealer (in my case, the Bass  Centre) had no say in the matter.

The manufacturer or distributor fixing the prices at the retailer or retailers fixing the prices between themselves is illegal in all but very limited circumstances in the UK.

Some of you guys are basically asking agedhorse in incriminate Mesa...

They are allowed to set an RRP though.  I think rather than look at Mesa, aim should be taken at the UK Distributor, surely they are getting the units at the Mesa wholesale price + shipping, so any any added cost must be due to them (maybe due to warranty costs)?

Maybe what is happening here is that by the time the units get from Mesa USA to Westside (UK dist) and then to the shop, so much margin has been added that the retailer can't really go below RRP and still make a net profit.

Just my 2c.  Not likely to buy one any time soon, but I would certainly be looking if I ever needed an 800w version of my walkabout scout.

Edited by No. 8 Wire

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3 minutes ago, No. 8 Wire said:

The manufacturer or distributor fixing the prices at the retailer or retailers fixing the prices between themselves in illegal in all but very limited circumstances in the UK.

Some of you guys are basically asking agedhorse in incriminate Mesa...

They are allowed to set an RRP though.  I think rather than look at Mesa, aim should be taken at the UK Distributor, surely they are getting the units at the Mesa wholesale price + shipping, so any any added cost must be due to them (maybe due to warranty costs)?

Maybe what is happening here is that by the time the units get from Mesa USA to Westside (UK dist) and then to the shop, so much margin has been added that the retailer can't really go below RRP and still make a net profit.

Yep, that's my sense also

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11 minutes ago, Musicman20 said:

What exactly does a distributor do in 2019?! Stores products and redirects repairs?

Pointed me to an approved repairer when my Walkabout transformer blew up. 

Anyone found any more videos of the WD800

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Wow. It's like web pages had never been invented... 😕🙂

Not seen any more videos, and I'll probably stop tormenting myself anyway...it's a shame that the only amp I'd be interested in has this issue...

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8 hours ago, No. 8 Wire said:

The manufacturer or distributor fixing the prices at the retailer or retailers fixing the prices between themselves is illegal in all but very limited circumstances in the UK.

Some of you guys are basically asking agedhorse in incriminate Mesa...

They are allowed to set an RRP though.  I think rather than look at Mesa, aim should be taken at the UK Distributor, surely they are getting the units at the Mesa wholesale price + shipping, so any any added cost must be due to them (maybe due to warranty costs)?

Maybe what is happening here is that by the time the units get from Mesa USA to Westside (UK dist) and then to the shop, so much margin has been added that the retailer can't really go below RRP and still make a net profit.

Just my 2c.  Not likely to buy one any time soon, but I would certainly be looking if I ever needed an 800w version of my walkabout scout.

This is likely to be the most likely scenario, but I don't know much about the laws of commerce in the UK, nor the costs involved in importing, taxes, fees, agency inspections, distributing, stocking, selling and supporting/servicing the product. I do know that Westside operates a substantial and well qualified service center with some outstanding service engineers, that costs something. From what I have seen, they go out of their way to be helpful to those of you in the UK when service is needed.

This is not my area of expertise, I'm "just" an engineer/designer. Please forgive me for this ;)

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Re: consistant pricing: The dealers need to make money in order to survive. Everything is fine until one of them 'breaks rank' and advertises for a cheaper price and then the others are forced to follow suit. They don't have to speak to each other for this to happen. The margins on equipment is not what it was and bills have to be paid. Factor in returns, warranty repairs, shipping costs etc in addition to existing running costs and that money has to come from somewhere.

I know from my own experience that margins can be very poor, especially when someone is determined to be the cheapest on the web. On the other hand there were one or two brands (mentioned in this thread) where margins are very good and deals can be had.

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@agedhorse if we bought one of these in the US for $999 and got it shipped over to the UK, would there be any issues with the different voltages or is there simple switch to cater for the difference in the UK and US current / voltage i.e. can a US model be easily used in the UK?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@agedhorse if we bought one of these in the US for $999 and got it shipped over to the UK, would there be any issues with the different voltages or is there simple switch to cater for the difference in the UK and US current / voltage i.e. can a US model be easily used in the UK?

There's nothing to prevent it technically, but in the event of a problem you would be on your own as the in-country service agent will not be obligated to repair it (under warranty or not).  By the time you pay all the import fees and taxes, shipping and such, I doubt it would be worth the risk. Besides, it undermines your local importer, dealer and service agent's effort to do business in your own country.

Edited by agedhorse

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, agedhorse said:

There's nothing to prevent it technically, but in the event of a problem you would be on your own as the in-country service agent will not be obligated to repair it (under warranty or not).  By the time you pay all the import fees and taxes, shipping and such, I doubt it would be worth the risk. Besides, it undermines your local importer, dealer and service agent's effort to do business in your own country.

Ok thanks, so that's a yes. 

There's a thing called a 'free market' model which I and most Americans are normally fans of. More competition is a good thing particularly when, as it seems to be the case here, the local operators are ripping off their customers. 

Btw Amazon has no difficulty undermining local UK retailers either.

Edited by Al Krow
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6 hours ago, agedhorse said:

There's nothing to prevent it technically, but in the event of a problem you would be on your own as the in-country service agent will not be obligated to repair it (under warranty or not).  By the time you pay all the import fees and taxes, shipping and such, I doubt it would be worth the risk. Besides, it undermines your local importer, dealer and service agent's effort to do business in your own country.

I think that the importer, dealer and service agent are undermining their efforts to do business in their own country.

If an amp retails - so after every middleman has added their cut, including the cost of potential services on it - at $999 (plus tax) in the US, it should be close to that price in Europe. Yes, perhaps a little more to cover the extra shipping, duty and then add VAT. But it is about $1700 in Europe. Even Thomann charge €1400/$1700 for one, and they would likely have bought scores of them: I am sure that they are not buying them from US guitar shops at $999 a pop. 

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26 minutes ago, JimBobTTD said:

If an amp retails - so after every middleman has added their cut, including the cost of potential services on it - at $999 (plus tax) in the US, it should be close to that price in Europe. Yes, perhaps a little more to cover the extra shipping, duty and then add VAT

It will be a bit more than a little extra in the UK.  A few posts back I worked out that figure to be about £1050 if you imported it yourself, so perhaps £1000 ish if imported in bulk at wholesale.

You are missing out another middle man though, which is the European distributor.  Under EU and UK law the importer is responsible for all statutory guarantee rights.  So they have to factor in the overhead of the probability of warranty claims.  It would be an extra cost to the US.  Although you could argue at a £300 margin for distribution and warranty costs, it would perhaps be cheaper to pay the shipping back to Mesa USA for warranty claims than have it done in the UK.

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46 minutes ago, No. 8 Wire said:

It will be a bit more than a little extra in the UK.  A few posts back I worked out that figure to be about £1050 if you imported it yourself, so perhaps £1000 ish if imported in bulk at wholesale.

You are missing out another middle man though, which is the European distributor.  Under EU and UK law the importer is responsible for all statutory guarantee rights.  So they have to factor in the overhead of the probability of warranty claims.  It would be an extra cost to the US.  Although you could argue at a £300 margin for distribution and warranty costs, it would perhaps be cheaper to pay the shipping back to Mesa USA for warranty claims than have it done in the UK.

Is there no US distributor? If the amps go Mesa > Shops in the US, then I can understand the difference. 

If the amps go Mesa > US Distributor > European Distributor > Shops, then I see a great way to simplify the supply chain rather than a reason why there is a huge markup. If this European distributor is liable for the guarantee, then Mesa, by definition, is not, and so can sell the amps at an even lower price. 

If we see $999 as the retail price per amp, add $15 per unit for extra postage costs and then add 20% VAT, the total price should be $1,217 or £916 (at today’s exchange rate). The fact that it costs half as much again suggests that something fishy is going on. 

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