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Cicero

Don't Give Hate a Chance. Difficulty rating?

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I'm working on 'Don't Give Hate a Chance' by Jamiroquai... 

I can kinda do it, but it's taken a hell of a lot of practice, and still doesn't sound 100% there. Something about the technique - or at least my technique - needed to play this seems unconventional / unnatural.

Anyone else tried this / have any tips? I'm specifically referring to the verse 'galloping' bits.

Cheers

 

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9 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I'm working on 'Don't Give Hate a Chance' by Jamiroquai... 

Anyone else tried this / have any tips? I'm specifically referring to the verse 'galloping' bits.

Practice is the only thing that will get your ability and technique up to speed.

Use a metronome and set it to a count where you can just about play that line. It'll get very boring, but you keep playing it until you feel comfortable and it is easy to play. Then you speed up the Metronome a little. Go around that loop until you can play along comfortably with the record.

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Did you know....I only found this one out two weeks ago!........

When using youtube....Bottom right there is a wheel/cog/settings sign next to the YouTube logo.

Click on that and you will find Speed. Click on that and you can slow it down to 75 % which also keeps it in tune. 

I never knew this all this time and have spent many extended  hours trying to catch micro snippets of something going back and forth. Learning things slowly really gives me a chance to grasp exactly whats being played. Once I really know it slowly, I find it a lot easier to bring it up to normal speed. I can learn something I find complicated so much faster overall using this. 

Probably a bit of stating the obvious for a lot of folks but its a new discovery for me so if that helps anyone who like me didn't know🤩

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Marta Altesa does a good version of this on YouTube which could be worth a look....

 

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It depends what problem specifically you're having. If you're missing the lower string try to include a little more arm motion perhaps? Maybe you're catching the skipped string accidentally? I guess I'd practice string-skipping leading with each RH finger. Rotating the hand at the wrist slightly when passing over the skipped string can help a bit, you can see Altesa doing this in the video Mudpup posted. Altesa uses the anchor point of her thumb as the center of the rotation.

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My main issue is sounding out the notes on the third string as clearly as possible at speed, and not sounding out the second string (muted, nonetheless) when returning to the first string.

Currently I'm playing it as 1-2-1 1-2-1 finger-wise, if that makes sense.

I just can't work out if it's supposed to feel that unnatural, or whether I'm doing it wrong!

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3 hours ago, bassjim said:

Did you know....I only found this one out two weeks ago!........

When using youtube....Bottom right there is a wheel/cog/settings sign next to the YouTube logo.

Click on that and you will find Speed. Click on that and you can slow it down to 75 % which also keeps it in tune. 

I never knew this all this time and have spent many extended  hours trying to catch micro snippets of something going back and forth. Learning things slowly really gives me a chance to grasp exactly whats being played. Once I really know it slowly, I find it a lot easier to bring it up to normal speed. I can learn something I find complicated so much faster overall using this. 

Probably a bit of stating the obvious for a lot of folks but its a new discovery for me so if that helps anyone who like me didn't know🤩

Yes, I've known about this for some time. Amazing tool for learning and practice. 

If only I had this when I was a teen! With youtube and so much online content, they don't know how lucky they are!

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13 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

What right hand fingering are you using?

 

1 minute ago, Cicero said:

Currently I'm playing it as 1-2-1 1-2-1 finger-wise, if that makes sense.

 

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I struggled with this until I found an unorthodox way to play the galloping octaves. First finger on the low note, then roll the ring finger followed my middle finger on the high note, then repeat.

So, 1-3-2, 1-3-2, etc.

Now I can play the track pretty easily except for that fast downwards run that comes later! Feels so much more fluid and natural to me than the 1-2-1 approach most go for.

Edited by dannybuoy

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5 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

I'd do it T-3-2 but both 1-2-1 and 1-3-2 make sense and are probably technically better.

I can pretty much play it perfectly using T-2-1, but, it seems like cheating to me!

As you say, I'm trying to be as technically proficient about it as possible.

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Record them side by side then blind play them back.....if the one with the thumb sticks out like a sore.....er....thumb, then there's validity in the "cheating" label, otherwise.......

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51 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I can pretty much play it perfectly using T-2-1, but, it seems like cheating to me!

As you say, I'm trying to be as technically proficient about it as possible.

This isn't classical music. There is no such thing as cheating.

All the top players will have good technique, but they all have their own style and method of playing as well.

If it sounds good then do it. If you can make something easier to play, and get the same results, then work on that.

Do everything in stages. 

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Playing the first note with the thumb (T-2-1) is how I first tried it and found it easiest to begin with, but the note thumps a lot more using the forefinger.

Rolling my fingers 3-2-1 comes very naturally to me, I've always used it for finger percussion instruments (which was basically my desk until my new acquisition of a Rav Vast drum!) and crabbing (which isn't as dirty as it sounds, it s a DJ technique of stuttering the fader by bouncing against your thumb!).

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4 hours ago, Mudpup said:

Marta Altesa does a good version of this on YouTube which could be worth a look....

That's the one that made me decide to learn it. She's a great player and makes it look effortless, during that fast run I mentioned she is smiling whereas I'm probably gurning with concentration!

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Just now, chris_b said:

All the top players will have good technique, but they all have their own style and method of playing as well.

The guy giving me lessons has shown me different ways to play stuff I've been playing for years. . . and opened my eyes. On some of it I've gone home worked at the lines and come up with "better" and more comfortable ways of playing his lines, ie playing on different parts of the fretboard, starting on a different string, etc.

He is happy that I have adapted his method and made it my own.

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2 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

Now I can play the track pretty easily except for that fast downwards run that comes later! Feels so much more fluid and natural to me than the 1-2-1 approach most go for.

Same here if you mean the bit at 'Were not so different anyway' - the bit at 3:36 on that video ^^

Edited by Woodinblack

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11 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Same here if you mean the bit at 'Were not so different anyway' - the bit at 3:36 on that video ^^

That's the one! I can just about do it, but only if I'm truly in the zone!

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3 hours ago, Cicero said:

My main issue is sounding out the notes on the third string as clearly as possible at speed, and not sounding out the second string (muted, nonetheless) when returning to the first string.

Currently I'm playing it as 1-2-1 1-2-1 finger-wise, if that makes sense.

I just can't work out if it's supposed to feel that unnatural, or whether I'm doing it wrong!

I play this and any other disco 'gallops' with 1-1-2 fingering on the right hand which, honestly, really helps a lot stamina-wise. Takes a little while to get used to but works loads better.

Think of it like this - if you were doing root-root-octave-octave 16ths, you'd more than than likely do them 1-2-1-2. With the DGHAC-style gallops you're just removing the second note, i.e. root-break-octave-octave.

Edited by bakerster135

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Playing that phrase with two fingers is just inefficient in my opinion. Give the 1-3-2 way a try if you haven’t, so much easier for me but I realise everyone’s different!

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1 hour ago, bakerster135 said:

Think of it like this - if you were doing root-root-octave-octave 16ths, you'd more than than likely do them 1-2-1-2. With the DGHAC-style gallops you're just removing the second note, i.e. root-break-octave-octave.

So, basically, River People... Which is another piece I'm working on 😁

 

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48 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

Playing that phrase with two fingers is just inefficient in my opinion. Give the 1-3-2 way a try if you haven’t, so much easier for me but I realise everyone’s different!

TBH, although I normally play it with 3 (with the same 1-3-2 pattern) which makes it pretty easy, it isn't that much harder with a 1-2-1 once you get into it.

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My tutor plays this with 2 fingers. So does Paul Turner, on the live videos. Play it any way you can make it work for you, but don't start with the intention to cut corners.

The pro's, the guys you are trying to emulate, will start slowly and build up. And it's not just about one riff. Once you have trained yourself to play difficult passages at these speeds, and with proper fingering, you'll discover an extra benefit which you weren't expecting. . . . being able to play fast improves how you play all the slower stuff.

Wikipedia has Derrick McIntyre playing bass on this. He's a new name to me. With "additional bass" by Randy Hope-Taylor. I guess they dropped him in on some overdubs?

 

 

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