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Al Krow

Helix Floor/LT/HX/Stomp Owners' Club - Tips, Ideas & Patches

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45 minutes ago, krispn said:

Anyhow derail aside I have a couple of pre amps to use with the Mooer which also has the option to models power amps so conceptually or dare I say practically the pre amp on my pedal board should suffice and I have both solid state and valve based units to try out both in isolation and in a room with the band. Exciting times ahead!

Sounds like mooer radar + preamp pedal pretty much has it covered for you.

And the point for bringing the discussion to this thread, is that I think a similar combination of HX Effects + Mooer Radar should also work pretty well.

I'm just trying to get my head around what a pre-amp pedal can actually provide that the HX Effects can't (and assuming that the venue has a DI) i.e. what are you still missing if you "only" have the Mooer's cab sims? I would have thought that judicious use of EQ plus a couple of the multiplicity of fx available on the HX Effects should be able to deliver a pretty darned good pre-amp patch? Guessing there will be a few HX Effects users on here ahead of me on this one!

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Can't the HX effects do IRs? Wouldn't that render the Mooer a bit redundant in that case?

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Just now, stoo said:

Can't the HX effects do IRs? Wouldn't that render the Mooer a bit redundant in that case?

Good shout. You'll need to talk me through that, please, and in particular whether the HX Effects can do IR's both well and relatively easily with the gear a typical bass player is going to have at their disposal? 

Anyone uploaded IRs onto the HX Effects and been pleased with the results?

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Just now, Al Krow said:

Good shout. You'll need to talk me through that, please, and in particular whether the HX Effects can do IR's both well and relatively easily with the gear a typical bass player is going to have at their disposal? 

Anyone uploaded IRs onto the HX Effects and been pleased with the results?

I'm not going to be much use to ya on that score.... I rarely bother with IRs on my Stomp as I don't usually use cab sims for bass and usually just use amp+cab blocks for guitar due to the 6 block limit. I have tried out a few guitar cab IRs, but don't prefer one way over the other enough to worry about wasting a separate block for an IR...

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11 minutes ago, stoo said:

Can't the HX effects do IRs? Wouldn't that render the Mooer a bit redundant in that case?

It’s in the manual how to load IR’s and yes it can, just a little tinkering and it’s there

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3 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

It’s in the manual how to load IR’s and yes it can, just a little tinkering and it’s there

Yep. They work just as well as in the Somp etc. Seems like the next update will make it a bit easier as well. 

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3 minutes ago, stoo said:

I'm not going to be much use to ya on that score.... I rarely bother with IRs on my Stomp as I don't usually use cab sims for bass and usually just use amp+cab blocks for guitar due to the 6 block limit. I have tried out a few guitar cab IRs, but don't prefer one way over the other enough to worry about wasting a separate block for an IR...

I guess the other key point is that if you're going down the IR route you're pretty much limited to your own cab, whereas something like the Mooer Radar allows you to 'sample' a whole world of cabs which could be interesting / useful in itself.

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1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

I guess the other key point is that if you're going down the IR route you're pretty much limited to your own cab, whereas something like the Mooer Radar allows you to 'sample' a whole world of cabs which could be interesting / useful in itself.

You can have 128 IRs stored on the HXFX and select a different one for each preset or even snapshot.

I think you might even be able to have the IR selector assigned to an expression pedal and sweep through all of them :D

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32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I guess the other key point is that if you're going down the IR route you're pretty much limited to your own cab, whereas something like the Mooer Radar allows you to 'sample' a whole world of cabs which could be interesting / useful in itself.

Surely the point of IR is you can download a cab (or even amp and cab) IR and make the output of your HX effects sound like any cab you want? Or am I missing the point somewhere along the line?

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29 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I guess the other key point is that if you're going down the IR route you're pretty much limited to your own cab, whereas something like the Mooer Radar allows you to 'sample' a whole world of cabs which could be interesting / useful in itself.

I don’t quite follow...

The HX range has any number of cabs both bass and guitar and I’m guessing you can use those on HX Native. Not sure if you can export from Native into the hxfx but if you can then you’d have access to all the Line6 IR’s which you could experiment with in Native or the relevant HX device of you have more than one. 

You might not want to run an IR into your cab as it’s already a cab but could be fun to try it. It might be an idea to set up your outputs to feed the DI signal to have the IR going to that output only. It’s pretty easy to set up or or was on the stomp where you could have effects going to your amp and have an amp and cab sim hitting the DI out  only. 
 

My best Helix tip/advice is RTFM 😀

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7 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Surely the point of IR is you can download a cab (or even amp and cab) IR and make the output of your HX effects sound like any cab you want? Or am I missing the point somewhere along the line?

You have missed nothing.

If you want your cab sound and it’s going through a P.A. - mic it and send it.

If you want any of the listed cab sounds on IR’s - straight to P.A.

You can even take a DI out the effects and have one cab sound out through PA and your own cab sound through whatever you are using as a monitor.

Loads of options at your finger tips, just needs a little exploration 

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3 hours ago, krispn said:

I don't. I never struggled with the form factor/U.I of the Stomp while I had one, found it pretty straight forward to use both on the fly and via the PC editor. I found Line 6 did a good job but I digress...

Just bought a flat so my savings are well and truly depleted and any 'disposable income' for the foreseeable future will be spent on things like flooring and power tools! I was gonna sell off the pedal board then maybe nab something small and good enough to make the FOH/IEM sound a bit more authentic for the band mates, me and the punters hence my question earlier about the Zoom and comparing the Stomp. I don't wanna be spending £300+ on a pedal which I'm gonna use 3% off. It may well be unlikely that my 'high ticket' pedal board items will sell so...

the Mooer seems like a decent way to have a 'better' FOH and IEM sound for little money and can pair nicely with what's unlikely to sell (the Cali76 and at least one of the pre-amps is my guess). If the pedals don't sell I'm not gonna be upset as they sound great but the additional cash would be handy of course.

@Al Krow knows well I'm quite practical with my gear and see it as functional, tools to get the job done so my gear (not all at the same time I should add) gets some gig time and judged on it's merits in that context. It's why I like to poke fun at him for never really gigging his gear even though he does quite enjoy opining about it. Oh BTW How's the HXFX working out for you live? ;)

Banter aside the Mooer does sound promising and will be gigged with my remaining pedals at the end of Feb as an IEM/D.I. rig with my main band at our regular venue. I've got some other gigs before then but they're all with the amp and cab, no D.I. used.


jon wilis has a “cab sim” he’s worked out for the helix with a three band eq and a HPF/LPF. that he prefers As an alternative to IR.


Having looked at your pedals for sale... and running into the PA then I would have thought a preamp, compressor and the Broughton filters would be all you needed. I’m not sure how much percentage better a cab sim would make it. 
 

having had the Zoom and the Stomp, the zoom is passable and has cab sims in it. Though going from the gear you have now to a zoom I think would be a fair step down. For me in your situation I would either keep my pedals of sell them all to get a stomp. 

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Thanks Luke. The pedal board is a stand alone gigging board and has worked really well. I put it together to be sorted working for live, studio and iem/direct and I’ve had the bulk of it for quite a few years. I fancied the mooer for IR as an option having enjoyed what the stomp could do but I basically used the stomp for all the stuff I already had and just kept my board and returned the stomp. I’ve a few offers in for some of the pedals and was away on holiday so kinda reluctant to get them shifted but the mooer can fill some gaps. Fingers crossed!! 

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Be interested to find out if anyone on this thread has actually used the IR on the HX Effects and found it useful? If so, please do elaborate!

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1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Be interested to find out if anyone on this thread has actually used the IR on the HX Effects and found it useful? If so, please do elaborate!

Yep used them, some good ones out there, definitely useful for a variety of goals,  worth a look

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Just now, Al Krow said:

Be interested to find out if anyone on this thread has actually used the IR on the HX Effects and found it useful? If so, please do elaborate!

Surely the one thing the effects can’t do is amp and cab sims. With the sansamp effect and a IR you must be half the way there surely? 

but don’t you run the effects into a amp and cab? will be less useful, though I’ve got some random Neve EQ IRS which might be more useful depending on what you are trying to achieve 

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37 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Surely the point of IR is you can download a cab (or even amp and cab) IR and make the output of your HX effects sound like any cab you want? Or am I missing the point somewhere along the line?

Yeah - my bad, I'm getting IR confused with the Tone Capture function on the Mooer GE250 which allows you to sample an amp to create new models on the Mooer GE250 in the way you can on a Kemper. Completely forgot that Tone Capture is not available on the Helix range.

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3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Be interested to find out if anyone on this thread has actually used the IR on the HX Effects and found it useful? If so, please do elaborate!

Yep, although I’ve not needed to use them live. I have a Fender 1x15 and  various Ampeg IR’s in mine. I mainly use them when I use my FX with headphones. 

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25 minutes ago, krispn said:

I don’t quite follow...

The HX range has any number of cabs both bass and guitar and I’m guessing you can use those on HX Native. Not sure if you can export from Native into the hxfx but if you can then you’d have access to all the Line6 IR’s which you could experiment with in Native or the relevant HX device of you have more than one. 

The cab blocks which are available in Helix Floor/Rack/Stomp/Native are not the same thing as IRs.... They perform essentially the same function, but they work in a somewhat different way.

None of the Helix models come with any IRs from the getgo, you have to acquire them separately. Some are free, some are paid for - I think Line 6 even offers a couple of free ones on their site somewhere.

If you have any IRs already in Native you could back them up and then import them into HXFX or any other helix unit.... but to get them into Native in the first place you'd presumably already have the IR files which you used to get them into Native in the first place.

The non-IR cab blocks can't be exported. You can back up their settings, but that wouldn't help you get them onto HXFX unless Line 6 release a HXFX firmware update including the relevant cab blocks.... which seems unlikely.

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1 minute ago, LukeFRC said:

Surely the one thing the effects can’t do is amp and cab sims. With the sansamp effect and a IR you must be half the way there surely? 

but don’t you run the effects into a amp and cab? will be less useful, though I’ve got some random Neve EQ IRS which might be more useful depending on what you are trying to achieve 

Generally you're spot on - I pretty much always use an amp and cab (and which is why I am much less needy of the amp and cab sims on the Stomp). But for one of our function venues in Central London, I go straight into DI (no amp and cab) and I'm guessing that may also be something that other HX Effects users may encounter? Hence the reason for these series of posts.

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4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Yeah - my bad, I'm getting IR confused with the Tone Capture function on the Mooer GE250 which allows you to sample an amp to create new models on the Mooer GE250 in the way you can on a Kemper. Completely forgot that Tone Capture is not available on the Helix range.

Technically, you can create your own IRs.... but the process isn't exactly trivial, and con't be done on the Helix models themselves.....

 

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Just now, stoo said:

Technically, you can create your own IRs.... but the process isn't exactly trivial, and con't be done on the Helix models themselves.....

 

Thanks - that's kinda what I was getting at with my initial question to you about "whether it was something your av bassist could do"? But my confusion with Mooer Tone Capture on its GE250 hasn't helped this discussion. Apologies! 

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9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Thanks - that's kinda what I was getting at with my initial question to you about "whether it was something your av bassist could do"? But my confusion with Mooer Tone Capture on its GE250 hasn't helped this discussion. Apologies! 

Never tried it, but it doesn't look massively complicated assuming you have a mic, a computer with some sort of audio interface and a DAW available... 

 

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I have been wondering if there is a way to get the HXFX to do amp / cab sims, mainly for recording into the computer.  From reading the previous posts am I correct in thinking there are two ways to achieve this;

1. Use the Sans Amp model and John Wilis' Cab Sim hack (3 band eq +hpf / lpf)

Or

2. Use an Amp IR and a Cab IR

I've only briefly looked at IRs thus far.

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1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

jon wilis has a “cab sim” he’s worked out for the helix with a three band eq and a HPF/LPF. that he prefers As an alternative to IR.

I plan on trying some of his eq option with the parametric eq on the Mooer as I recall some of his settings for the Stomp/HX were pretty solid.

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