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Al Krow

Helix Floor/LT/HX/Stomp Owners' Club - Tips, Ideas & Patches

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2 hours ago, stoo said:

I read somewhere that in certain cases that HPFs can cause issues where the reduction in cone travel means the heat generated is concentrated around one part of the voice coil and could potentially cause damage if it overheats.

If there is less cone travel there is less heat, so that isn't going to be an issue

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22 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Just got back from my first rehearsal with the FX. It was so much easier to use than the Stomp,, although I still kept hitting two switches at the sam time. I’ll get used to it though. Definitely the right purchase. 

Penny dropped.... I was wondering how it was that the FX worked for you and why Line6 would release the HX FX and the HX Stomp... then realised- guitarists would need the amp modelling way more than bass players would!

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11 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Penny dropped.... I was wondering how it was that the FX worked for you and why Line6 would release the HX FX and the HX Stomp... then realised- guitarists would need the amp modelling way more than bass players would!

There's a much broader point there Luke. Guitarists and pedals are like bread and butter. Bassists and pedals are more often just toast.

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2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

There's a much broader point there Luke. Guitarists and pedals are like bread and butter. Bassists and pedals are more often just toast.

Yep, i could happily gig without any effects, although where's the fun in that 🙂

The FX is better laid out for live use IMO. Each effect has its name above it, easy to read and for me no need to change patches/banks. I'm quite indecisive when in comes to effects, so although his have a good idea about what I want to use and when, i like the idea that its all there ready to be used as and when. Although ive been using the Stomp in 5 footswitch mode with the external footswitch, it was difficult seeing what the two external switches were doing, as they dont light up. More so if i hit both by accident. Its also nice to get the tuner back on a switch, although i rarely use it. 

Its hard to describe but its all just laid out better for on the fly use. 

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22 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Penny dropped.... I was wondering how it was that the FX worked for you and why Line6 would release the HX FX and the HX Stomp... then realised- guitarists would need the amp modelling way more than bass players would!

The previous rehearsal I purposely stayed away from using amp sims, and it worked fine. Over the  past 15 years ive used an amp and cab, with something in front of it. Most of the time a BDDI, so i still have my traditional rig set up (new righ, but used the same way), but with loads of new options. 

 

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3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I don't entirely follow that stoo. The HPF will be cutting the amount of low f waves being produced by the cab. The lower resultant speaker cone displacement gives rise to less kinetic energy and friction ie less heat. 

But I could be missing something fundamental / basic here. 

@Phil Starr any thoughts? 

I'll give it a go Al 

The energy going into the speaker is coming from the amp, about 4% is going to be converted into sound and the rest into heat. Most of the heat is transferred across the magnetic gap and ends up being dissipated into the air by the magnet assembly and to a lesser extent the frame. A smaller proportion is lost into the air around the coil and some speakers use the cone movement to move air through the gap to increase heat loss. All of the coil carries the same current but the bit in the magnet gap runs cooler as the distance to the heat conducting magnet is small. Having the coil largely out of the gap can lead to overheating so not a good thing. 

the other thing that can destroy a speaker with over excursion happens if the coil makes contact with the back of the magnet assembly. 

The HPF will have two effects, it reduces the electrical power below the cut off frequency which is good, although not usually a large effect and it will reduce excursion as you can see keeping the coil safely inside the magnet gap. It will also reduce distortion because the coil is operating in the linear part of the magnetic field for more of the time and by reducing doppler effects.

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Great thanks Phil. It seems to me that the mechanical points you cover are additionally beneficial / bound in with the sound tightening and speaker efficiency impact of an HPF. 

Maybe worth going as far as to say that with a well tailored HPF, in terms of choosing an appropriate initial cut off frequency, there are plenty of upside benefits and there is actually very little in the way of downside. 

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9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Great thanks Phil. It seems to me that the mechanical points you cover are additionally beneficial / bound in with the sound tightening and speaker efficiency impact of an HPF. 

Maybe worth going as far as to say that with a well tailored HPF, in terms of choosing an appropriate initial cut off frequency, there are plenty of upside benefits and there is actually very little in the way of downside. 

I think that's fair Al.

I actually spent a few minutes listening to those clips in the video jumping back and forth to compare like with like. With headphones and jumping straight back and forth there is a little difference. Our ears (actually our brains) are tuned to detect differences so A/B testing does emphasize change. Even so the held note at the end of the first bit of bass is so much cleaner with the Thumpinator. In a live performance with variable room acoustics and the rest of the band going I think the only differences would be a cleaner more defined sound.

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13 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

All we need are IEM's and a HPF and we can conquer the world lol.

Haha. I personally would stick an HPF on every effects patch for Helix, Zoom or other multi, as standard.

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11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Haha. I personally would stick an HPF on every effects patch for Helix, Zoom or other multi, as standard.

I only found out i needed one earlier  this year when the buzz started going around, and used it a few times before stopping. Never noticed the difference. I guess the biggest impact for me would have been using it to give my other pedals a cleaner tone to work with. Saying that, i agree that if its there, use it.

Still on the fence as to what version in the Helix to use.

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11 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

The FX is better laid out for live use IMO. Each effect has its name above it, easy to read and for me no need to change patches/banks. I'm quite indecisive when in comes to effects, so although his have a good idea about what I want to use and when, i like the idea that its all there ready to be used as and when.

Thats what I like about it. When I am gigging, I have 6 bright buttons with clear names which are the same as having 6 effects pedals, except that some of them do multiple things. Seeing as we are the most unorganised band on the planet, I don't always know what the next track is until it is about to start (or annoyingly occasionally, just after it has started), I am not sure I could do it with whole patches.

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47 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Haha. I personally would stick an HPF on every effects patch for Helix, Zoom or other multi, as standard.

You could just do it in the global... 

and if you want to save blocks any cab block will have one on

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18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Thats what I like about it. When I am gigging, I have 6 bright buttons with clear names which are the same as having 6 effects pedals, except that some of them do multiple things. Seeing as we are the most unorganised band on the planet, I don't always know what the next track is until it is about to start (or annoyingly occasionally, just after it has started), I am not sure I could do it with whole patches.

Same here, plus im still working out what effects work on what song, so need to be spontaneous.

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1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

You could just do it in the global... 

and if you want to save blocks any cab block will have one on

For me its at the Start. I want to clean up the low end so the other pedals have a better chance, so putting it first is better. Obviously we can put another at the end if needed as well, but at the levels i play at there is no real need for another one.

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6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Haha. I personally would stick an HPF on every effects patch for Helix, Zoom or other multi, as standard.

I do this myself. All my patches have a HPF and a noise gate set up on the input block as standard. If I had to choose only one though, it would be the noise gate all day long. Most underrated effect ever IMO, both for recording and live use! 

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6 minutes ago, CameronJ said:

I do this myself. All my patches have a HPF and a noise gate set up on the input block as standard. If I had to choose only one though, it would be the noise gate all day long. Most underrated effect ever IMO, both for recording and live use! 

I had to stick a NG on one of my patches on in the FX. I had to use a block.Thats another difference between the Stomp and FX. Not a big deal really.

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2 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I had to use a block. Thats another difference between the Stomp and FX. Not a big deal really.

Especially when there’s no block limit!

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32 minutes ago, CameronJ said:

Especially when there’s no block limit!

Well the FX has a 9 block limit, but ill never max that out.

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39 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Well the FX has a 9 block limit, but ill never max that out.

Ah I didn’t realise that. Still, 9 blocks is great.

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1 hour ago, CameronJ said:

Ah I didn’t realise that. Still, 9 blocks is great.

Yep, certainly more than enough for me. 

Ive just up a patch that gives me a proper headphone workflow, which I'm quite pleased about. Mono bass with stereo feed from my iPad, output in stereo to headphones, with full control over the volume of each (using iPad volume control of course). 

Makes the Stomp seem even less needed now, but I like the idea of just keeping the FX in the gig bag and using the Stomp at home. Having the Amp sims do make a difference i guess. 

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1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

 Having the Amp sims do make a difference i guess. 

But didn't your Zoom B1Four do that for far less?????

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8 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

But didn't your Zoom B1Four do that for far less?????

Yep, as does my B3n, B1-on, but not in the same league as the Helix. 

Don't get me wrong, i was/am perfectly happy with the B1-Four. All i need at home is something to make the bass sound good in headphones, with the ability to run my iPad in to it so i can learn songs etc. I dont bother with any effects. All the above work fine. Ive recently been using just the BDDI sim with a IR for home practice with the Stomp, and can do the same thing with the FX, but I'm keeping the Stomp for daily use. I don't like too many wires or too much setting up when i just want to get on and play at home. 

The Stomp will live in the bedroom ready to go, and the FX will stay in my gig bag ready to go (unless i need to make changes to patches etc, which probably wont happen at home). 

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