Helix Floor/LT/HX/Stomp/PodGo owners' Club - Tips, Ideas & Patches

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, jimbobothy said:

... so would the signal from a JDi XLR out be unbalanced as well if it’s only being fed a TS connection?

there are two types of signal we are talking about: balanced and unbalanced. 

Balanced is good because it generally is not effected by noise as much. To be balanced it need three connectors in the wire positive, negative and ground. 
Unbalanced has two conectors, positive and ground. Signal degrades over long cables. 

Typically unbalanced things like a bass use quarter inch jack sockets. 
Balanced things use XLR .... but the important thing is what the signal is - not what the plugs are...

So in typical use a DI box converts a unbalanced signal to a balanced signal. It might also change the level and impedance but that's not relevant at the moment.
So you plug a bass (that gives an unbalanced signal) into a JDi - and it converts it to a lovely balanced signal - which you need a wire with three connectors for... so you use the industry standard XLR and take lots of lovely bass signal to the desk.... sorted. 

 

If you look here at the back of the helix you can see two XLR out in the middle - sending balanced signal to the desk. 

Where it gets confusing with the HX Stomp and HX effects  is we don't have any XLR - for the same reason that my iPhone doesn't have a headphone socket - there's not enough space. 

Instead we've got a 1/4 inch jack. ... which is what we typically use for unbalanced signals. BUT they have designed it so a 1/4 inch jack with three contacts (TRS) will get a balanced signal. 
So a TRS - XLR cable will do the same job as a XLR-XLR out of the back of your JDI 
A TS - XLR will give an unbalanced signal (and need a DI box to make it balanced) 

So in your case if you are replacing the JDI with the Stomp you will need one (or two for stereo) TRS-XLR cables to send to the desk (or converters) 
The downside is - that it's not a standard cable so you will need to buy them (and a spare)  as you can't expect a venue to have them.
(In worst case senario though you can use a ts-ts and a DI box!)

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by LukeFRC
Woodinblack correction

[Woodinblack]

59 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Balanced is good because it generally is not effected by distortion as much. To be balanced it need three connectors in the wire positive, negative and ground. 
Unbalanced has two conectors, positive and ground. Signal degrades over long cables.

Great description but would just clarify something just to be super picky and make sure things are accurate!

There is no reason for a difference in distortion between balanced and unbalanced, they are the same signal. The reason you use balanced is for noise. Electrical noise exists all the way around you and whatever precautions you take, a certain amount of noise will be radiated into your cable.

If your cable is unbalanced that noise will be added to the signal that is being sent to your output, and if it is big, will be noticable. If your connection is balanced, the same noise will be added to both your positive connection and your negatvie connection in equal amounts, so when the signal is put back into an input (where the input will be differenced), the noise on the negative will (within bounds) cancel out the noise on the positive.

All other things being equal (length of cable, quality of cable, impedance), a balanced line will give you a less noisy signal than an unbalanced.

[LukeFRC]

8 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Great description but would just clarify something just to be super picky and make sure things are accurate!

updated! If that's the only major error I did well! I get a bit out of my depth when it comes to input/output impedance's and the different levels... 

[Woodinblack]

5 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

updated! If that's the only major error I did well! I get a bit out of my depth when it comes to input/output impedance's and the different levels... 

Impedance is also another whole minefield but not really important there. Generally speaking, balanced lines have lower impedances than unbalanced. There is no technical reason for this, just convention based on where they are used. A lower impedance will also have less noise injected (or will be less affected by that noise).

[jimbobothy]

Great replies chaps, much appreciated. Summarising a DI will convert an unbalanced (ie TS) signal to balanced, a TS to XLR converter won’t.

The original query was regards to the HX Stomp and phantom power damage reduction however. If I used a TRS to XLR converter I’d still be at risk of damaging the unit. 

Simplest solution then is to keep using a DI if I’m going straight into a desk then I suppose?

Edited November 11, 2020 by jimbobothy

[Woodinblack]

21 minutes ago, jimbobothy said:

The original query was regards to the HX Stomp and phantom power damage reduction however. If I used a TRS to XLR converter I’d still be at risk of damaging the unit.

Sorry, I didn't see the original post, I was just diving in at that post. While still not having read it thoroughly, I seriously doubt it is possible to any commercial audio device by accidently having phantom power on. Especially not a device where that is a reasonable possibility. Not only is phantom power generally fairly low current, it goes straight into a set of capacitors before it does anything which takes the DC out (which is  in fact the whole way phantom power can work).

Its not something I would ever worry about and I know I have fed phantom power accidently to all sorts of inputs (I need phantom for the sax players mic, and I have had that switched on when many other things were plugged in).

[LukeFRC]

33 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Sorry, I didn't see the original post, I was just diving in at that post. While still not having read it thoroughly, I seriously doubt it is possible to any commercial audio device by accidently having phantom power on. Especially not a device where that is a reasonable possibility. Not only is phantom power generally fairly low current, it goes straight into a set of capacitors before it does anything which takes the DC out (which is  in fact the whole way phantom power can work).

Its not something I would ever worry about and I know I have fed phantom power accidently to all sorts of inputs (I need phantom for the sax players mic, and I have had that switched on when many other things were plugged in).

I think there have been some issues with HX stomp getting fed Phantom - I make sure I ask for it to be off on my channel before turning on.

JDi probably a nicer bit of kit whatever!

[jimbobothy]

Thanks again for the input chaps. I don’t play in a pro environment so can’t presume the phantom power would have been turned on/off from the last time the desk was used. Either way I don’t have any TRS/XLR converters, but I do have a couple of JDi s. I’ll just take them off one of the boards they’re on if I use the HX Stomp straight into the desk.

Thanks again for your comments 👍🏼

[Jack]

9 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Sorry, I didn't see the original post, I was just diving in at that post. While still not having read it thoroughly, I seriously doubt it is possible to any commercial audio device by accidently having phantom power on. Especially not a device where that is a reasonable possibility. Not only is phantom power generally fairly low current, it goes straight into a set of capacitors before it does anything which takes the DC out (which is  in fact the whole way phantom power can work).

Its not something I would ever worry about and I know I have fed phantom power accidently to all sorts of inputs (I need phantom for the sax players mic, and I have had that switched on when many other things were plugged in).

Its not something I've experienced with my stomp, but on my full fat helix rack it just causes horrible noise. I used the xlrs on the rack to feed my stage and cabs and the 1/4" to a di for pa. 

 

Now I'm using a stomp and I don't have that option. On 75% of our gigs I'm the soundman so I just use a trs>xlr cable because I know phantom is off. On any gig where its not me I take a di. Just easier. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Jack

[Al Krow]

Virtual boards of 6 pedals on Helix HX FX

On 14/07/2020 at 21:43, Al Krow said:

I've kinda been thinking that the way we use our pedal-boards is to kick in certain pedals for certain songs. It's great that with Helix we can set up to 128 separate songs (on the HX Effects and Stomp and I presume even more on the higher end models?) with the combination of effects we want for each song, but conceptually it's easier for me to get my head around the fact that there are actually only a few effects that I want to regularly use including the obvious ones e.g. drive, filter.

Having the ability to set up a few "boards" of 6 pedals in stomp mode on the HX FX which can give me a set of core pedals seems to be just the ticket for this. Had a bit of fun setting up "Board 1"  this evening and will no doubt get onto a few more over the coming weeks. That still leaves plenty of banks for particular set list songs alongside.

On 14/07/2020 at 22:15, PatrickJ said:

I have 3 virtual boards set up on my HX FX right now.

Board 1 is for use in front of my ashdown tube head! It's got a PARA EQ, Compressor and a drive pedal and that's it.  This is for jamming with my buddies at the studio which is primarily rock based music.

Board 2 is dubbed Jazzcapades and is for use in front of my Markbass head.  This has a bit more going on! 2x Para EQs that are set to match the EQ points of the Little Marcus MB heads, a compressor, Octave pedal and a Tilt control to roll off the high end (adjusted via expression pedal) to allow me to switch between modern and vintage tones.  I dep'd a few times for rehearsals with a couple of jazz bands before lockdown and I built this board incase I got another call back.

Board 3 is labelled Deeper Underground.   This is full of Synths, filters and Octaves for jamming along to Jamiroquai tracks, only at home I can't find anyone else who wants to play these songs.

@stewblack - it was this earlier discussion I was reminded of when you mentioned that you "like multi fx I can play like individual pedals."  At the budget end of the Helix range the HX Effects is particularly well suited to this set up.

[Al Krow]

The larger Helix pedals have expression pedals built in - are folk using separate expression pedals with the HX Effects and Stomp and, if so, what effects are you particularly finding you're using them on and which expression pedal model have you gone for?

Edited November 12, 2020 by Al Krow

[bassfan]

On 14/07/2020 at 22:15, PatrickJ said:

I have 3 virtual boards set up on my HX FX right now.

Board 1 is for use in front of my ashdown tube head! It's got a PARA EQ, Compressor and a drive pedal and that's it.  This is for jamming with my buddies at the studio which is primarily rock based music.

Board 2 is dubbed Jazzcapades and is for use in front of my Markbass head.  This has a bit more going on! 2x Para EQs that are set to match the EQ points of the Little Marcus MB heads, a compressor, Octave pedal and a Tilt control to roll off the high end (adjusted via expression pedal) to allow me to switch between modern and vintage tones.  I dep'd a few times for rehearsals with a couple of jazz bands before lockdown and I built this board incase I got another call back.

Board 3 is labelled Deeper Underground.   This is full of Synths, filters and Octaves for jamming along to Jamiroquai tracks, only at home I can't find anyone else who wants to play these songs.

I’m late to the party on this but I’d like to see your setting @PatrickJ for the Jamiroquai board, if you fancy sharing with us all. 👍🏻😃

[PatrickJ]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

The larger Helix pedals have expression pedals built in - are folk using separate expression pedals with the HX Effects and Stomp and, if so, what effects are you particularly finding you're using them on and which expression pedal model have you gone for?

I'm using a Moog EP-3.  

[Al Krow]

What particular effects are you finding it's really adding value on, Patrick? 

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

The larger Helix pedals have expression pedals built in - are folk using separate expression pedals with the HX Effects and Stomp and, if so, what effects are you particularly finding you're using them on and which expression pedal model have you gone for?

I have too much tap dancing with the keyboard pedals without using a pedal!

[PatrickJ]

33 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

What particular effects are you finding it's really adding value on, Patrick? 

Honestly I'm not using the expression pedal much, mainly have it set for EQ adjustments like the Tilt control I mentioned in previous post.  However since getting the Shuker bass the EQ is so flexible in the Pre Amp it's negated the need.

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, PatrickJ said:

Honestly I'm not using the expression pedal much, mainly have it set for EQ adjustments like the Tilt control I mentioned in previous post.  However since getting the Shuker bass the EQ is so flexible in the Pre Amp it's negated the need.

Thanks - well that's good to know. Although at £45 it's pretty good value! Currently got my eye on the Boss EV-30 - like the idea of a dual expression pedal that could be linked to both the Helix and Boss SY-1 synth pedal, and the Boss looks pretty compact. Hopefully no issue with using it with Helix.

[PatrickJ]

On 12/11/2020 at 08:36, bassfan said:

I’m late to the party on this but I’d like to see your setting @PatrickJ for the Jamiroquai board, if you fancy sharing with us all. 👍🏻😃

Re-writing this post as I've completely changed the structure of the board.

As per the patch name I primarily set this up for playing along to Deeper Underground by Jamiroquai board, but have adjusted and expanded it for some other songs too, like Little L and Feels Like It Should.

Current virtual board:

Top (clean line)

• Mutant Filter
• Bass Octaver
• ZeroAmp Bass DI

Bottom (Synth Line)

• Rochester Comp
• Synth String
• Simple Pitch
• Cave Reverb
• Industrial Fuzz
• Tron Up

Synth Patches and Use

Footswitches configured like this:

Bass Octaver and Bass Compressor are always on when using the synth patches

Synth Strings activates the Synth String,  Simple Pitch and Cave Reverb patches together for the intro of Deeper underground

Synth Bass activates the Industrial Fuzz & Tron Up patches for the main synth sound in that song.

I play the riffs up past the 12th hence the Bass Octaver, the line split gives me a blended clean and synth signal.

Edited November 14, 2020 by PatrickJ

[bassfan]

That’s great, thanks @PatrickJ   Any sound clips? 

[PatrickJ]

On 12/11/2020 at 14:07, bassfan said:

That’s great, thanks @PatrickJ   Any sound clips? 

Quickly re-recorded (with latest patches) the intro and first verse of Deeper Undeground for you (the playing's a bit rough but you get the idea).

With Backing Track

- deeper-mix.mp3

Isolated Bass

deeper-isobass.mp3

 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by PatrickJ

[bassfan]

6 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

Quickly recorded the intro and first verse of Deeper Undeground for you (the playing's a bit rough but you get the idea).

deeper - fullmix.mp3 1.7 MB · 2 downloads

deeper - isobass.mp3 1.7 MB · 1 download

Nice one. Sounds great 👍🏻👍🏻 I hope your band are going to play that. Been trying to get a jamiroquai song into our set for years. 

[PatrickJ]

10 minutes ago, bassfan said:

Nice one. Sounds great 👍🏻👍🏻 I hope your band are going to play that. Been trying to get a jamiroquai song into our set for years. 

Me too - they're just not into it :(. 

As I said the patches aren't perfect and I keep tweaking them to get them better but for playing along at home they work OK.  Ultimately synths and filters are just not what the helix excels at.

Edited November 13, 2020 by PatrickJ

[bassfan]

7 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

Me too - they're just not into it :(. 

As I said the patches aren't perfect and I keep tweaking them to get them better but for playing along at home they work OK.  Ultimately synths and filters are just not what the helix excels at.

I don’t think any patches need to be perfect. The punters won’t know so long as it’s close enough.

I think we’d all agree about the synths in the helix. Shame really! 

[Al Krow]

12 minutes ago, bassfan said:

I don’t think any patches need to be perfect. The punters won’t know so long as it’s close enough.

I think we’d all agree about the synths in the helix. Shame really! 

+1 ^^

But tbf you're looking at a Mooer GE300 (full fat not Lite) or Boss SY-1000 if you want a multi fx that can deliver filter and synth. And for the difference in price you could get a Boss SY-1, SA C4, or Panda FI to fill the gap. Although it would obviously be great to have everything under one bonnet! 

[PatrickJ]

51 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

+1 ^^

But tbf you're looking at a Mooer GE300 (full fat not Lite) or Boss SY-1000 if you want a multi fx that can deliver filter and synth. And for the difference in price you could get a Boss SY-1, SA C4, or Panda FI to fill the gap. Although it would obviously be great to have everything under one bonnet! 

I've been thinking about a SA C4 for a while now. Maybe I'll ask father christmas