US "touring band" gets found out in Bristol

[Monkey Steve]

1 hour ago, Merton said:

Interview with the (now former!) touring drummerist:

https://www.loudersound.com/features/threatin-interview-inside-the-years-most-talked-about-tour

that's scary - the band weren't even getting paid!

[EliasMooseblaster]

6 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

that's scary - the band weren't even getting paid!

I'm sure a lot of us have been in situations where the "agreed fee" goes from being Some Money, to A Bit Less Money, and then a week before the event, Well, The Venue Will Lay On Dinner And We'll Cover Your Expenses, to Erm...OK I Guess We'd Better Cover Your Expenses. I should probably be grateful that the last time that happened to me, it was just for one gig and I only had to cross London rather than the chuffing Atlantic Ocean...

[bassbiscuits]

1 hour ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

I'm sure a lot of us have been in situations where the "agreed fee" goes from being Some Money, to A Bit Less Money, and then a week before the event, Well, The Venue Will Lay On Dinner And We'll Cover Your Expenses, to Erm...OK I Guess We'd Better Cover Your Expenses. I should probably be grateful that the last time that happened to me, it was just for one gig and I only had to cross London rather than the chuffing Atlantic Ocean...

True.

I've played original gigs for nothing - got paid in pie and mash with a pint once (which was lovely) and we made enough money hawking CDs to punters at halftime to make it worthwhile. 

[BigRedX]

Did the band have any merch to sell at these gigs?

[MacDaddy]

The music has received a bit of a slating, but I don't think it's too bad. Not that I'd go and see them, mind...

[Monkey Steve]

1 hour ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

I'm sure a lot of us have been in situations where the "agreed fee" goes from being Some Money, to A Bit Less Money, and then a week before the event, Well, The Venue Will Lay On Dinner And We'll Cover Your Expenses, to Erm...OK I Guess We'd Better Cover Your Expenses. I should probably be grateful that the last time that happened to me, it was just for one gig and I only had to cross London rather than the chuffing Atlantic Ocean...

yes, true, but not as a hired hand for a European tour.  I'm happy to play for free, or even at a marginal loss - why expect anything else after so many years, and it's something that I genuinely love doing.  But if somebody told me they were going to fly me to another continent for a couple of weeks to help out their solo career, I'd need to take time off work and and they weren't actually going to even cover my expenses, just so that I could make him look good (well, in theory anyway, I don't think it's the band's fault that it's gone wrong) I've have to have a serious word with myself.

[EliasMooseblaster]

5 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

yes, true, but not as a hired hand for a European tour.  I'm happy to play for free, or even at a marginal loss - why expect anything else after so many years, and it's something that I genuinely love doing.  But if somebody told me they were going to fly me to another continent for a couple of weeks to help out their solo career, I'd need to take time off work and and they weren't actually going to even cover my expenses, just so that I could make him look good (well, in theory anyway, I don't think it's the band's fault that it's gone wrong) I've have to have a serious word with myself.

Very true! I kind of understand what the guy was saying about being true to his word when he agrees to do something...but on the other hand, if the other party starts to welch on the original arrangement like that, then surely you're in a perfectly good position to walk out with your morals intact?

[arthurhenry]

There's a wider point to be made here regarding general gig going apathy. Assuming these gigs were promoted locally in the normal ways (posters at venues, flyers, listings magazines and websites etc). Isn't it sad to think that almost nobody heard about the gigs and decided to to along and watch some new bands at their local venue?  It used to amaze me that  when I gigged in Leicester Square or Soho in tourist season, venues would often be almost empty. If an American friend told me she was gigging in Times Square, New York,  for example, I'd imagine a packed venue in a vibrant, thriving area, but perhaps I'd be very wrong.

[Teebs]

Jared Speaks!!! 😯

'I turned an empty room into an international headline'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/i-turned-empty-room-international-15422815

[MacDaddy]

but when that headline reads as 'you're a twonk', maybe not so good?

[vantagepointrocks]

I wonder what attendances would have been like if they had tried playing the rest of the dates on the tour after the story broke, would the publicity have generated some punters?

[uk_lefty]

1 hour ago, vantagepointrocks said:

I wonder what attendances would have been like if they had tried playing the rest of the dates on the tour after the story broke, would the publicity have generated some punters?

Probably only reporters. If the music was stinky poo and the band leader is known for either pulling a stint or being a weirdo then I doubt many would part with their hard earned cash to see the two minute novelty.

[acidbass]

5 hours ago, Teebs said:

Jared Speaks!!! 😯

'I turned an empty room into an international headline'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/i-turned-empty-room-international-15422815

My initial thought is that this is incredible (albeit paid-for) publicity. Bet you his next tour sells well - assuming he can find venues to accept his booking.

[paul_c2]

On 11/11/2018 at 18:29, Count Bassy said:

Unfortunately it's very easy to 'Like' a band on facebook. Actually going to see them takes more effort.

Putting the joking to one side, it does raise an interesting point though - when trying to promote something in the public eye, how do you translate (for example) Facebook 'likes' or "I'll attend this event" style posts (which are a single click, right?) to an approximate number of attendees? Clearly its not 1:1 but I think some weight must be given to genuine likes; and of course unless you have bought those 'likes' in a bizarre self-defeating publicity stunt, I guess you can only assume these likes would be genuine; so the ratio is more than 0:1 too. And of course you'll get gig attendees from other avenues such as word-of-mouth, posters, venue's own publicity, possibly passing footfall etc.

[EliasMooseblaster]

1 minute ago, paul_c2 said:

Putting the joking to one side, it does raise an interesting point though - when trying to promote something in the public eye, how do you translate (for example) Facebook 'likes' or "I'll attend this event" style posts (which are a single click, right?) to an approximate number of attendees? Clearly its not 1:1 but I think some weight must be given to genuine likes; and of course unless you have bought those 'likes' in a bizarre self-defeating publicity stunt, I guess you can only assume these likes would be genuine; so the ratio is more than 0:1 too. And of course you'll get gig attendees from other avenues such as word-of-mouth, posters, venue's own publicity, possibly passing footfall etc.

It's usually pretty easy to tell when somebody's bought a heap of dubious FB or Twitter followers - if thousands of people have followed/"liked" their page, but their posts are only getting clicks and supportive comments from their best friends and/or mum, then their "enormous" following probably isn't all it first appears to be. (Though clearly, some sizeable venues would do well do learn this!)

[paul_c2]

Agree, its fairly easy to tell if its fake. But if it wasn't fake, and it just appeared to be genuine interest - it does happen every now and again, right?

Also I forgot to say in my first post; of course any amount of publicity is only that, it might get people through the door once, but there's no easy shortcuts and it needs to be genuinely decent/interesting music etc, with a following probably built up gradually over time.

[EliasMooseblaster]

Sorry, it appears I mis-read your original post a little - if people have gone to an event and clicked the "I'll attend this" button, then it's a bit harder to spot. Clearly Mr Threatin had managed to find a service which would generate such fake attendees, and I guess at the point you have to have a look through the list of people and see where they're posting from, which can be harder to judge.

That said, enough journalists seemed to be able to spot that the supposed attendees were mostly posting from Brazil, so I have to presume that enough of these people were sharing their location with FB to make an educated guess feasible!

[paul_c2]

Apologies, I should have possibly made it a little clearer. Having now looked at Facebook (I don't normally 'do' Facebook stuff) there's 2 areas I'm focusing on - "Likes" for a particular group and "Interested" in (there is also an "Attending") a forthcoming event. On both of these you can click through to view the profile page of those who have liked/marked interested but of course you'd only see their basic info viewable if you weren't already a friend (so you may not directly know their accurate location if they chose to hide it).

Clearly in the Threatin case, it would not have taken too much effort to do a little digging to see that the likes were either from far far away (Brazil) or all had their location hidden (and possibly no other publically-viewable info, so it would not be easily possible to determine the location). Whether further digging is easy/possible/needed, and whether its blindingly obvious its a fake account or its possible to obfuscate it somewhat, I don't know without further looking.

However my broader question was when its not a case of generating fake interest (ie say you were in the band....and knew that you or other band members hadn't generated the fake interest) but you see a growing number of likes or "interested" or "attended" marks, how do you correlate this to genuine interest/attendance/support/fanbase?

[BigRedX]

IME somewhere between 10 and 25% of people who say they will "attend" on Facebook actually show up at the gig.

However it works the other way too. If you sell advance tickets on-line for a gig, 10-25% of those who buy tickets won't be there, but you'll still get paid for the sales.

Edited November 16, 2018 by BigRedX

[Hurricane Jimmie]

So Anyway, this guy is getting his 15 minutes of fame.. and maybe that was the end-game all along.  He'll probably be booked on a series of D level TV interview shows as this story grows legs.  I'd wager that he becomes a preacher at some point in his life.  If he's broken any legal agreements, let them settle it in court.  But it's pretty obvious that not many folks care for his music.

But would any of us want to trade places with him?  I think he's more to be pitied than envied or ridiculed.  

[paul_c2]

There is a school of thought "all publicity is good publicity" but its kinda short-lived if its soon revealed the actual level of talent is low. So I'd argue that its never good to rely on that kind of publicity, and at the end of the day you need to be able to do it.

[mcnach]

20 hours ago, BigRedX said:

IME somewhere between 10 and 25% of people who say they will "attend" on Facebook actually show up at the gig.

 

 

That's doing very well! 

[uk_lefty]

1 hour ago, Hurricane Jimmie said:

So Anyway, this guy is getting his 15 minutes of fame.. and maybe that was the end-game all along.  He'll probably be booked on a series of D level TV interview shows as this story grows legs.  I'd wager that he becomes a preacher at some point in his life.  If he's broken any legal agreements, let them settle it in court.  But it's pretty obvious that not many folks care for his music.

But would any of us want to trade places with him?  I think he's more to be pitied than envied or ridiculed.  

Perfect for any TV show with the word "celebrity" in the title

[Bluewine]

I was in a band with a guy that would do stuff like this. He would write fake press releases, fake gig reviews, post fake interviews.

Thing was, the guy could sing had great material and the band was tight. At the end of the day, the guy was an idiot and only wanted to play "rock star" in his basement.

He's easy to spot in the pic, a real "tool".

Blue

[HazBeen]

I must admit I am finding it hard not to crack a joke here.