Duffer's guide to writing lyrics....

[solo4652]

2 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

All my ex-floozies

Did me down low

But now I see clearly

I'm past that, and how..!

Ha! 😁   You want dodgy doggerel? - I'm your man. You want catchy song lyrics - speak to Dad 3353!

[Monkey Steve]

1 hour ago, solo4652 said:

Now that hadn't occurred to me! However, for me, lyrics should be meaningful. Also, they should rhythm, and they scan. Maybe this is where I'm going wrong - trying too hard. Here's an example. I've just been to the barbers. While waiting, I jotted down a few lines. Bear with me. Please be gentle with this heart of mine.

Most of my women inhabit my past,

and all of those women took me to task.

Never so lonely, now ever so clear

that fear of short-falling should stay in my past.

 

More verses would tell of moving on, recovery, growing, optimism, being cherished for the first time ever. I'd re-work the last line of that first verse for the last line of each verse. Title = Future past.

Too deep for song lyrics? Trying too hard? 

 

 

I think you’ll find that’s a limerick

[phil.c60]

3 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

And don’t ever end a line with the word Orange

Unless your name is Gorringe......

[TheGreek]

4 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

Buy a decent rhyming dictionary and a thesaurus.

This...I recall, many, many years ago, Dean Freedman being on "Multicoloured Swapshop" and donating his rhyming thesaurus as a prize.... 

Obviously not this one but..

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/merriam-websters-rhyming-dictionary-merriam-webster-inc-staff/1007523900#/

Edited November 1, 2018 by TheGreek

[PaulWarning]

4 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

Sterling advice from Sir Tim Rice:

Buy a decent rhyming dictionary and a thesaurus.

no need it's all free online, saved me hours trying to figure out what rhymes with what

[skankdelvar]

4 hours ago, solo4652 said:

Too deep for song lyrics? Trying too hard? 

 Fine as confessional poetry but not so much as a song lyric.

It's not that it's particularly 'deep' but the lengthy process of going through rejection, moving on, growing, optimism and being cherished places too many demands on the casual listener - unless the purpose of writing those lyrics is simply to help you put a frame around things that have happened to you, which is a perfectly admirable reason for writing things down.

If you're writing songs for other people to listen to, you might be better off choosing two consecutive points in your journey ( [Rejection > moving on] or [growing > optimism] or [optimism > being cherished] or even [being cherished > rejection]) and writing a song about that shorter journey. Try to do the whole process in one go and you're in for five or six verses of reflective stuff and dense, poetic words which is fine if one is Leonard Cohen, not so much if one is not.

So: why not write about a simpler, shorter journey and maybe take the personal edge off it by writing it in the second or third person. Oh, and get the hook into the song within 28 secs or it'll never get past a radio playlist committee 

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by skankdelvar

[solo4652]

2 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

 Fine as confessional poetry but not so much as a song lyric.

It's not that it's particularly 'deep' but the lengthy process of going through rejection, moving on, growing, optimism and being cherished places too many demands on the casual listener - unless the purpose of writing those lyrics is simply to help you put a frame around things that have happened to you, which is a perfectly admirable reason for writing things down.

If you're writing songs for other people to listen to, you might be better off choosing two consecutive points in your journey ( [Rejection > moving on] or [growing > optimism] or [optimism > being cherished] or even [being cherished > rejection]) and writing a song about that shorter journey. Try to do the whole process in one go and you're in for five or six verses of reflective stuff and dense, poetic words which is fine if one is Leonard Cohen, not so much if one is not.

So: why not write about a simpler, shorter journey and maybe take the personal edge off it by writing it in the second or third person. Oh, and get the hook into the song within 28 secs or it'll never get past a radio playlist committee 

 

Thank you. That's exactly the sort of advice I was looking for.

[Happy Jack]

4 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

I think you’ll find that’s a limerick

I don't think so. I really don't.

[Maude]

If stuck for inspiration try writing about everyday characters you see around you. 

That lonely busker with the weathered guitar. He had a career but it didn't go far. His worldly possessions in a bag by his side. His previous life washed away like the tide. His family still love him but he'll never return. He's doing alright, he's got eight quid to burn. What you think he's lacking won't ever get him down. He's the Lord of his manor, the King of his town. Blah, blah, etc, etc. 

Pick an interesting person, couple, group and make up their story. It stops it feeling too personal when singing to others. 

It worked for the Kinks. 😊

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Maude

[lozkerr]

42 minutes ago, Maude said:

If stuck for inspiration try writing about everyday characters you see around you.

Sound advice. Also, try free writing - you just write and write. Doesn't have to rhyme, look like lyrics or even make sense. It can be doggerel, obscenities, anything you like, but if you try to keep a theme or idea in your head while you're doing it, things can pop out of nowhere. It might be something alliterative or onomatopoeic or a play on words - anything. But even a short sentence can be enough to get you going.

I'm working on a TV series at the moment, and free writing is a godsend when I hit a wall. I just put my characters into mundane situations and type away. Most of it goes into the bit bucket, but I've come up with some gems that I'm very pleased with.

You do have to be ruthless and self-critical to a fault, though. It's quite normal to write ten thousand words and chuck almost everything away; and what's left may need a lot of changes before it works. But when it does work, it's immensely rewarding.

[lozkerr]

 

57 minutes ago, Maude said:

If stuck for inspiration try writing about everyday characters you see around you.

Or do some people watching:

I stand alone on a silent street in a town so far away

While they picture me as I post a letter saying where I went today

Did this, did that, got drunk, bought tartan tat

As the rows of blank-faced windows glared and told me to go away

... etc 🙂

 

[skankdelvar]

3 hours ago, solo4652 said:

Thank you. That's exactly the sort of advice I was looking for.

You're very welcome. Also, doing one-step journeys means you can get three or four songs songs out of your greater 'journey'. Then - if you like -  you can join them up with some short instrumental interludes and  - Hey Presto! - you got yourself a mini rock opera. Ker-ching!

Slightly unbelievably, some of the best lyric writers operate in the Country genre. Example:

I can hardly bear the sight of lipstick
On the cigarettes there in the ashtray
Lyin' cold the way you left them
But at least your lips caressed them while you packed
And a lip print on a half-filled cup of coffee that you poured and didn't drink
But at least you thought you wanted it, that's so much more than I can say for me

A Good Year For The Roses - Writer: Jerry Chesnut / Performer: George Jones

Edited November 2, 2018 by skankdelvar

[Bolo]

Tell them what the song is called or about

Introduce the situation and the main characters

Why is it not straight forward for this situation to evolve into a happy ending, what's the trouble.

Tell them what the song is about or the name of the song

Do that again

How was the trouble resolved, describe the happy ending

Tell them the name of the song some more.

 

 

 

There you have it. The ultimate songwriting guide!

 

[Happy Jack]

OK, that's War And Peace, now let's see you summarise A La Recherche De Temps Perdu ...

 

[lurksalot]

The first thing I find is a spark of inspiration , it’s difficult to conjure up a story without knowing what you want to say.

the genre makes a massive difference to the lyric type and content and style.

have a stab at the monthly composition challenge , it offers a great starting point.

you get a subject given to you , you get a visual scene presented and most importantly , you have a deadline , you can write stuff forever but until you actually start to press the publish button it doesn’t seem done to me.

Like everything else, practice works, just keep knocking them out and one day you might start to like one or two of them 

[MacDaddy]

or try the'Disaster Area' approach:

Their songs are on the whole very simple and mostly follow the familiar theme of boy-being meets girl-being beneath silvery moon, which then explodes for no adequately explored reason.

 

[Fozza]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

OK, that's War And Peace, now let's see you summarise A La Recherche De Temps Perdu ...

 

http://www.montypython.net/scripts/proust.php

[lozkerr]

8 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Slightly unbelievably, some of the best lyric writers operate in the Country genre. Example:

Heh, Country's easy. Here's a starter kit:

             DO-IT-YOURSELF COUNTRY & WESTERN SONG KIT
 
I met her [1] [2].  I can still recall [3] she wore.
 
1.                                 2.                                 3.
on the highway          in September            that purple dress
in Sheboygan             at McDonald's          that little hat
outside Fresno          ridin' shotgun            that burlap bra
at a truck stop           wrestlin' gators        those training pants
on probation              all hunched over       the stolen goods
in a jail cell                 poppin' uppers          that plastic nose
in a nightmare           sort of pregnant       the Stassin pin
incognito                    with joggers              the neon sign
in the Stone Age       stoned on oatmeal   that creepy smile
in a treehouse           with Merv Griffin       the hearing aid
in a gay bar                dead all over              the boxer shorts
 
 
She was [4] [5].
 
4.                                                     5
sobbin' at the toll booth               in the twilight
drinkin' Dr. Pepper                         but I loved her
weighted down with Twinkies     by the off-ramp
breakin' out with acne                  near Poughkeepsie
crawlin' through the prairie          with her cobra
smellin' kind of funny                   when she shot me
crashin' through the guardrail    on her elbows
chewin' on a hangnail                  with Led-Zeppelin
talkin' in Swahili                            with Miss Piggy
drownin' in the quicksand           with a wetback
slurpin' up linguini                        in her muu-muu
 
 
and I knew [6]; [7] I'd [8] forever;
 
6.                                                               7.                                      8.
no guy would ever love her more         I promised her                stay with her
that she would be an easy score         I knew deep down          warp her mind
she'd bought her dentures in a store   She asked me if             swear off booze
that she would be a crashing bore       I told her shrink             change my sex
I'd never rate her more than "4"            The judge declared        punch her out
they'd hate her guts in Baltimore         My Pooh Bear said         live off her
it was a raven, nothing more                I shrieked in pain            have my rash
we really lost the last World War         The painters knew          stay a dwarf
I'd have to scrape her off the floor      A Klingon said                  hate her dog
what strong deodorants were for       My hamster thought        pick my nose
that she was rotten to the core           The blood test showed   play "Go Fish"
that I would upchuck on the floor       Her rabbi said                   salivate
 
 
She said to me [9]; But who'd have thought she'd [10] [11];
 
9.                                                10.              11.
our love would never die        run off         with my best friend
there was no other guy          wind up       in my Edsel
man wasn't meant to fly         boogie        on a surfboard
that Nixon didn't lie                 yodel           on "The Gong Show"
her basset hound was shy     sky dive      with her dentist
that Rolaids made her high   turn green   on her "WorkMate"
she'd have a swiss on rye      freak out     with a robot
she loved my one blue eye    blast off      with no clothes on
her brother's name was Hy    make it       at her health club
she liked "Spy vs. Spy"            black out    in a Maytag
that birthdays made her cry  bobsled      with her guru
she couldn't stand my tie       grovel         while in labour
 
[12] goodbye.
 
12.
You'd think at least that she'd have said
I never had the chance to say
She told her fat friend Grace to say
I now can kiss my credit cards
I guess I was too smashed to say
I watched her melt away and sobbed
She fell beneath the wheels and cried
She sent a hired thug to say
She freaked out on the lawn and screamed
I pushed her off the bridge and waved
But that's the way that pygmies say
She sealed me in the vault and smirked
 

[EliasMooseblaster]

Another instructive example:

 

[Nicko]

Personally I think when writing lyrics I dont think rhyme is that important, and there are some awful lyrics that seem to have been written just to get a rhyme (George Ezras Shotgun, Oasis' She's Electric), whereas its perfectly OK to have prcatically no Rhyme except repeated phrases:

Elbow's Grounds for Divorce

Mondays is for drinking to the seldom seen kid

I've been working on a cocktail called "Grounds For Divorce", whoa
Polishing a compass that I hold in my sleep, whoa
Doubt comes in on sticks, but then he kicks like a horse, whoa
There's a Chinese cigarette case and the rest you can keep
And the rest you can keep
And the rest you can keep

There's a hole in my neighbourhood
Down which of late I cannot help but fall
There's a hole in my neighbourhood
Down which of late I cannot help but fall

Mondays is for drinking to the seldom seen kid
(Ooh, ooh)

There's this whispering of jokers doing "Flesh by the Pound"
To a chorus of supposes from the little town whores
There'll be twisted karaoke at the Aniseed Lounge
And I'd bring you further roses but it does you no good
And it does me no good
And it does you no good

There's a hole in my neighborhood
Down which of late I cannot help but fall
There's a hole in my neighborhood
Down which of late I cannot help but fall
There's a hole in my neighborhood
Down which of late I cannot help but fall

Someday we'll be drinking with the seldom seen kid
(Ooh, ooh)

 

 

 

[PaulWarning]

26 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Personally I think when writing lyrics I dont think rhyme is that important, and there are some awful lyrics that seem to have been written just to get a rhyme
 

 

 

 

this is very true, I always think of Macca's "my love don't give me presents, but I know that she's no peasant" as a perfect example of this, but get it right and a rhyme is better than a non rhyme.

If there was a template for writing good lyrics everybody would be doing it

[RonMac]

I'm a firm believer in planting a seed first. ... Maybe it's a phrase, maybe just a word. But plant that first in your brain and forget about it. ... If it's good it'll come back again and again. ... Try not to get fixated in rhymes. ... The moon/june/swoon tune. You can always do that later when you're cleaning it up. ... Editing is a big part of writing. ... I wrote a book and the editing was the most painful part. ... Bob Dylan was asked where his early songs came from, Watchtower, Highway 61, etc, and he had no idea and said he could never write like that again. ... I like to write story songs so they have a beginning, a middle and an end. Then you know it's over. ... Study songs you like and try to figure out why they appeal to you. ... Writing is a commitment. Work at it and you'll be good. ...  

[Nicko]

3 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

this is very true, I always think of Macca's "my love don't give me presents, but I know that she's no peasant" as a perfect example of this, but get it right and a rhyme is better than a non rhyme.

If there was a template for writing good lyrics everybody would be doing it

I couldn't agree more  Billy Bragg has a great way with unexpected rhymes:

In the end it took me a dictionary
To find out the meaning of unrequited
While she was giving herself for free
At a party to which I was never invited

The point I was making is phrasing is more important that forcing a word to fit just because it rhymes.

 

[RonMac]

15 hours ago, lozkerr said:

"While they picture me as I post a letter saying where I went today" ... This is a very good line and should be the start of that verse. ... And maybe just "Picture me, posting a letter of where we went today. ... "Where we went" is a strong coupling. The listener would want to know where? ... "I went" sounds a little love-sick, like to miss someone. ... There are mental images attached to pairings. ...

"Picture me posting a letter of where we went today. The park, the zoo, on the patio sat a table for two." ... At this point it could go either way, you could continue discribing your day but, maybe the day you are discribing is only in your head because that other person didn't show up. But, you still discribe this great day you had. "When the waiter asked, I had nothing to say. ................ (and) you" ... That completes the rhyme of today-say and two-you.   

 

 

Quote

🙂

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by RonMac
Tried to fix

[Barking Spiders]

Just think up any old ballcocks as a euphemism for coitus  etc and the job's done 👍. Phrases  like 'love rocket', 'love pump' , 'putting my log in your fireplace', 'squeeze my lemon' , 'shoot to thrill' etc are handy to have