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Al Krow

Bugera "2000W" with 3x12AX7 valve pre (this should peak your interest)

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Wow, brief sidetrack. I found a couple of pics from early 2000. I had a rack then and I used a Peavey Kilobass head or a Peavey MAX preamp/power amp combination with those Genz Benz cabs. Each setup was rated at 350 watts RMS x 2 @ 8 ohms and 500 watts RMS x 2 @ 4ohms.

Kilobass and MAX/power amp

 

Kilobass.jpg

Max.jpg

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Just now, ebozzz said:

Wow, brief sidetrack. I found a couple of pics from early 2000. I had a rack then and I used a Peavey Kilobass head or a Peavey MAX preamp/power amp combination with those Genz Benz cabs. Each setup was rated at 350 watts RMS x 2 @ 8 ohms and 500 watts RMS x 2 @ 4ohms.

Kilobass and MAX/power amp

 

Kilobass.jpg

Max.jpg

Looks great.. but heavy!

  • Haha 1

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Just now, Bridgehouse said:

Looks great.. but heavy!

The Kilobass by itself only weighed 15 lbs and the preamp/power amp rig was heavier. They both killed but I'm glad that I don't have to lug that around any longer!

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1 minute ago, ebozzz said:

The Kilobass by itself only weighed 15 lbs and the preamp/power amp rig was heavier. They both killed but I'm glad that I don't have to lug that around any longer!

Er hmmm...were Peavey using RMS watts or peak watts? 😂

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20 minutes ago, ebozzz said:

The Kilobass by itself only weighed 15 lbs and the preamp/power amp rig was heavier. They both killed but I'm glad that I don't have to lug that around any longer!

There’s a bit of me that fancies a “hefty” amp for the music room... hmmm maybe I need some cheap “Trace” watts :crazy:

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38 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Interesting you mentioned Trickfish. I had exactly the same reaction when I discovered their Bullhead 1K was 1000W peak and not RMS, because I do think in terms of RMS generally for amps and my immediate thoughts were (i) well it's gone from being comparable to my DG M900 to approx half the power rating and (ii) why were they trying to pull the wool over my eyes by using an uncommon rating? 

Ok there may be no industry "standard" in the formal legal sense, but it's certainly what the majority of amp manufacturers are using.

So we have Bugera and Trickfish using peak for the amp ratings to describe their amps.

Who else? It would actually be useful to know how common peak rating usage is with bass amp makers.

 

Ashdown often just uses something like "500 watts".  There are quite a few others.....

https://ashdownmusic.com/collections/heads/products/rm-500-evo-2-head

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1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Er hmmm...were Peavey using RMS watts or peak watts? 😂

They used RMS during that period. Now? I can't speak for all of their amp line but I owned a Peavey MiniMAX briefly. It was rated at 500 watts continuous @ 4 ohms. It performed very well and I liked the tone a lot. LOUD fan though.....

Edited by ebozzz

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Here's another Ashdown example and I owned this amp at one time. MiBass 2.0. Sounded nice and Ashdown claimed 600 watts. It may have been 600 watts but I never could get the volume to get much more than practice amp applications with a clean tone. I could get it louder by boosting the gain but that also added dirt to the signal. Not necessarily a bad thing but what if you don't want dirt?

https://ashdownmusic.com/collections/legacy/products/mibass-2-0

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21 hours ago, ebozzz said:

Here's another Ashdown example and I owned this amp at one time. MiBass 2.0. Sounded nice and Ashdown claimed 600 watts. It may have been 600 watts but I never could get the volume to get much more than practice amp applications with a clean tone. I could get it louder by boosting the gain but that also added dirt to the signal. Not necessarily a bad thing but what if you don't want dirt?

https://ashdownmusic.com/collections/legacy/products/mibass-2-0

Ashdown claim 640W, or 400w RMS.

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The calculated 5/800w RMS figures for this amp (or even, if you like impressing your friends with stupidly big numbers '2000w Peak') will be loud enough to damage your hearing on a gig, especially with a cab(s) with good sensitivity, which will get the maximum SPL out of those watts. I gig with a 300w amp (having owned 5-800w amps in the past) and a Barefaced cab which has good sensitivity, and it's at least as 'loud', and plenty loud enough for a two-guitar, Marshall 412 rock band with a shed-building drummer.

I'd still be interested in hearing of any reputable bass amp manufacturers who use Peak power ratings as their sole sales figures. That's historically been the preserve of Tandy, Amstrad and the shonkier end of the amp market.

Edited by Muzz

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2 hours ago, bloodandtearsuk said:

As a prospective buyer of the Bugera, if I were to be in the market for a cabinet.. what figures can I go off?? the lack of a standard in the field certainly causes potential for problems.

880watts I reckon.

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9 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

Ashdown claim 640W, or 400w RMS.

I don't believe that I've ever seen those figures in any of their documentation but if accurate, it was an underwhelming 400 watts RMS. 

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You don't need ridiculous power.

If you were getting 1000-2000w rms from behringer - you'd never have a cab to use with it, bar an 8x10. Certainly couldn't use it with your standard 250-300w cab.

Edited by la bam

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23 hours ago, Muzz said:

The calculated 5/800w RMS figures for this amp (or even, if you like impressing your friends with stupidly big numbers '2000w Peak') will be loud enough to damage your hearing on a gig, especially with a cab(s) with good sensitivity, which will get the maximum SPL out of those watts. I gig with a 300w amp (having owned 5-800w amps in the past) and a Barefaced cab which has good sensitivity, and it's at least as 'loud', and plenty loud enough for a two-guitar, Marshall 412 rock band with a shed-building drummer.

I'd still be interested in hearing of any reputable bass amp manufacturers who use Peak power ratings as their sole sales figures. That's historically been the preserve of Tandy, Amstrad and the shonkier end of the amp market.

Many have used the 10% distortion figure as their claimed out put as Some class D amps are rated that way. IcePower and Powersofet ERTC don't but you can still use slight of hand with those. For example the ICEPoer 50ASX2 is capable of 100W int 8ohms and 170W into 4 ohms bridged (BTL). Gallien Krueger use it in their Combos and in the little 200 Head but ICEpower only claim 170W. But then we are all guilty of assuming that a number in an amps mode; number indicates Watts

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2 hours ago, la bam said:

You don't need ridiculous power.

If you were getting 1000-2000w rms from behringer - you'd never have a cab to use with it, bar an 8x10. Certainly couldn't use it with your standard 250-300w cab.

You can... you simply turn down the output/volume!  :/  

 

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10 minutes ago, la bam said:

That would defeat the point.

And you've no idea how much power youre putting in via your volume dial.

How would it defeat the point?  You have an accelerator on your car... you decide how far to push it down.  

I also don't need to know how much 'power' I'm putting into a cab, it is irrelevant.  I turn up the volume, it complains, I turn it down... :/   I've ran a 200 watt cab with a 2000 watt power amp and never once had a problem; because I used the gain/volume controls.  

Not trying to be awkward but folks are seriously wrapped up in the numbers and seem to forget that the obvious deciding factor in all of this is 'human' and you are in control. 

Just to throw this in the mix; my present set-up is a 750 watt amp which I use with a 2x10 cab (or two) and have done for some years, I recently trialled a 100 watt amp with the same cab(s) and I managed to continue gigging without killing any piece of equipment or ANY detriment in tone that the audience heard (no trickery with PA back-up).  ;) 

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8 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

How would it defeat the point?

Why buy a big high powered amp and not use it?

Just buy a smaller one.

I struggle to believe you've run an amp at 2000w into a standard 200w cab. Or if you are, your not running it bridged, and/or are not using a bridged cable. This brings it down from 2000w to around 300w (8ohm running one side) as a guess.

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2 minutes ago, la bam said:

Why buy a big high powered amp and not use it?

Just buy a smaller one.

I struggle to believe you've run an amp at 2000w into a standard 200w cab. Or if you are, your not running it bridged, and/or are not using a bridged cable. This brings it down from 2000w to around 300w (8ohm running one side) as a guess.

Really... :/  

What do you struggle with?  You simply don't whack the gain/volume/output on full (saying that I always ran my power amp on full and controlled the input gain for a clean signal), I know loads of people who run big power amps into cabs of a couple hundred watts... it is simple and safe.  

As for why buy a higher powered amp than you need; headroom, future-proofing, etc etc.  I'd ask why buy a smaller amp than you 'might' need in the future?

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10 minutes ago, la bam said:

Why buy a big high powered amp and not use it?

Just buy a smaller one.

I struggle to believe you've run an amp at 2000w into a standard 200w cab. Or if you are, your not running it bridged, and/or are not using a bridged cable. This brings it down from 2000w to around 300w (8ohm running one side) as a guess.

you're more likely to blow a speaker by turning up an unpowered amp too much, as I understand it

Edited by PaulWarning

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10 minutes ago, la bam said:

Why buy a big high powered amp and not use it?

Just buy a smaller one.

I struggle to believe you've run an amp at 2000w into a standard 200w cab. Or if you are, your not running it bridged, and/or are not using a bridged cable. This brings it down from 2000w to around 300w (8ohm running one side) as a guess.

 

Why not? I used a 600W one into a 250W cab quite a bit.

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