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Al Krow

Bugera "2000W" with 3x12AX7 valve pre (this should peak your interest)

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5 hours ago, emilibass said:

Has anyone actually tried the 1001T?

Quite a decent review...

 

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I'm sick of this. 2000 watts? Of course it's not. Give an accurate value. It's like TC Electronic juicing their wattage by vast amounts of compression. Everyone is doing it.

I'd never buy a class D again after my Peavey IPR1600 experience (600w my @rse) unless the wattage rating was vastly greater than what I require.

Edited by Wolverinebass

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On 25/10/2018 at 17:43, emilibass said:

Has anyone actually tried the 1001T?

Yes. It was excellent.

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On 22/10/2018 at 03:58, Chienmortbb said:

I was surmising that once prices fall. stock is low and the expected date does out to months rather than weeks, a product has ceased manufacture. However I have no proof.

Behringer recently knocked prices down across their lines by up to 40%, FWIW: https://sonicstate.com/news/2018/10/22/behringer-price-drops-across-the-board/

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On 22/10/2018 at 08:45, Al Krow said:

The T has gain, volume and master, whereas the M dispenses with the volume (and have to admit not sure what the extra volume dial on the T is actually there for?!) 

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me would answer.  Here is my understanding...

On the M: the gain will not affect the tone.  Its only purpose is to set the correct level going into the eq section.  E.g. if you have weak pickups you would raise the gain; if you have powerful pickups you would lower the gain.

However on the T: adjusting the gain will also affect  the tone.  E.g. you may want to "crank" the gain for its tubey tonal benefits.  In that case, the extra volume control lets you attenuate back to unity, so you don't overload the eq section.

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18 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me would answer.  Here is my understanding...

On the M: the gain will not affect the tone.  Its only purpose is to set the correct level going into the eq section.  E.g. if you have weak pickups you would raise the gain; if you have powerful pickups you would lower the gain.

However on the T: adjusting the gain will also affect  the tone.  E.g. you may want to "crank" the gain for its tubey tonal benefits.  In that case, the extra volume control lets you attenuate back to unity, so you don't overload the eq section.

Thanks John. You're probably right, but I suspect anyone who has had a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 would be able to give us a definitive answer (assuming that doesn't include you :) ).

It seems to me that the T and M have drawn quite closely from the much loved Streamliner 900:

image.png.04b9a7c6e1937b529e54d4094bfeea9a.png

 

image.png.7c3503502254cc980b803f42feeed710.png

 

image.png.8fccf9870dd06a20f2873fbae2a558e9.png

Here's my educated guess at what might have happened - Behringer bought up some of the design rights to Genz Benz when it went under. And just as Volkswagon Beetle production got shipped to Brazil when they stopped being made in Europe, the Streamliner continues to live on in the Bugera. But that's complete conjecture!

But if that is indeed what happened, then it's maybe not a surprise that folk are finding these to be pretty decent amps, and at the price point they have come in at they're going to get a following.

Shame they've been described as 2000W amps, though. That's clearly pants from what folk are saying and means us punters find ourselves not trusting the claims of manufacturers and regarding them more as simple sales-merchants.

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28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Thanks John. You're probably right, but I suspect anyone who has had a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 would be able to give us a definitive answer (assuming that doesn't include you :) ).

It seems to me that the T and M have drawn quite closely from the much loved Streamliner 900:

 

 

 

image.png.04b9a7c6e1937b529e54d4094bfeea9a.png

 

image.png.7c3503502254cc980b803f42feeed710.png

 

L

Here's my educated guess at what might have happened - Behringer bought up some of the design rights to Genz Benz when it went under. And just as Volkswagon Beetle production got shipped to Brazil when they stopped being made in Europe, the Streamliner continues to live on in the Bugera. But that's complete conjecture!

But if that is indeed what happened, then it's maybe not a surprise that folk are finding these to be pretty decent amps, and at the price point they have come in at they're going to get a following.

Shame they've been described as 2000W amps, though. That's clearly pants from what folk are saying and means us punters find ourselves not trusting the claims of manufacturers and regarding them more as simple sales-merchants.

I totally agree about manuactures spurious claims and when the Veyrons first came out. I dismissed them. One thing I will dissolute is that Behringer always clone other people’s designs. The Veyron takes its cosmetic cues from the Genz Benz but inside it clearly uses proprietary electronics. I would also prefer a passing nod to The Genz Benz than say the Aguilar Tonehammer amps. in terms of looks.

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To my eyes the Bugera bears more of a similarity to one of these than the Streamliner.

s-l1600.jpg

  • Haha 4

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16 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Thanks John. You're probably right, but I suspect anyone who has had a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 would be able to give us a definitive answer (assuming that doesn't include you :) ).

I've owned a Streamliner 600 in the past, and also a Shuttle 9.2 which has a similar tube preamp section, and yes when I turned the gain up I also then correspondingly turned the volume down, as that's what seemed to me to work best -- but perhaps there are other, better ways to combine all the controls.  In my mind it's like having an effects pedal where you use the output volume control to avoid overloading the next pedal in the chain.

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15 hours ago, Osiris said:

To my eyes the Bugera bears more of a similarity to one of these than the Streamliner.

s-l1600.jpg

Funnily enough I worked for Panasonic and we had to bail out JVC ( eventually took them over) when the cost of developing VHS just about bankrupted them. They wer know in house as the Junk Video Corporation or the Junior Video Corporation.

 

As for the power output? I will measure it but quite it is not although bothy the Bugera and the Genz Benz might struggle to keep up with the noise of a JVC fan.

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On ‎27‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 22:45, Wolverinebass said:

I'm sick of this. 2000 watts? Of course it's not. Give an accurate value. It's like TC Electronic juicing their wattage by vast amounts of compression. Everyone is doing it.

I'd never buy a class D again after my Peavey IPR1600 experience (600w my @rse) unless the wattage rating was vastly greater than what I require.

I must admit, power and watts confuses me more now than it ever did. It seems that, to a layman, more power, means louder and therefore better, which is why companies inflate their ratings, but my old 80s Peavey puts out about 210W at 4 ohms, topping out at 300 into 2 ohms, and will confidently outstrip anything you can put up against it; it's deafeningly loud.

Edited by Jono Bolton

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Gigged my Bugera again last night. Sounded great, looked great and was way too loud/powerful for what was a pretty big room.

More than happy with it.

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On 02/11/2018 at 23:04, stewblack said:

Gigged my Bugera again last night. Sounded great, looked great and was way too loud/powerful for what was a pretty big room.

More than happy with it.

And after all the debate about wattage or the perception of said watts, the above post is the most important one. Stew loves the amp. A happy bass player!

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16 minutes ago, jezzaboy said:

And after all the debate about wattage or the perception of said watts, the above post is the most important one. Stew loves the amp. A happy bass player!

+1 ^^

So if it's around 500W RMS (shame about the 2000W claim - it makes the manufacturer appear ridiculous); IMO smart clean lines, with aux in and headphone out (how many amp heads give you that these days - my DG M900 doesn't for starters) semi parametric mids and on board compressor and is  JUST£208 (M) or £253 (T) (new) then as a back up amp, or even a main gigging amp, it's looking like a good option to me.

I'm not convinced how good a valve pre-amp is going to be in emulating a valve power-amp section and as folk have said potentially more to go wrong with valves. So the M version might be the more sensible "back up" option of the two. 

Certainly made it onto my short-list!

And @warwickhunt I know you're concerned about Gear4Music going bust in the 3 month order period, but you have SIX months to raise a claim on PayPal :) 

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3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

And @warwickhunt I know you're concerned about Gear4Music going bust in the 3 month order period, but you have SIX months to raise a claim on PayPal :) 

A bit of a moot point if you use a debit/credit card, as they don't debit the card until the goods are despatched.

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26 minutes ago, barkin said:

A bit of a moot point if you use a debit/credit card, as they don't debit the card until the goods are despatched.

Thanks - even better! Do you have to request this from PayPal or is this automatic?

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That seems to be a different much better than the approach taken by Andertons who most certainly did take monies from my account before despatch! This was with regard to the Helix Stomp which was due out, according to their website, the following day. Which they then changed to "maybe in a couple of months". I duly cancelled the order to get a refund.

Gear4Music also provide a 30 day no quibble return rather than 14 day (Andertons, PMT).

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8 hours ago, Al Krow said:

So if it's around 500W RMS (shame about the 2000W claim - it makes the manufacturer appear ridiculous);

For a period of time, I owned both the Mosfet and the Tube versions. My plan was to make a decision on which I liked more and the other would be returned to the vendor. I liked them both and couldn't decide. I kept each of them for more than a year until I sold the Tube to fund another amp purchase. Right now my amps are the Quilter Bass Block 800, Ashdown Rootmaster RM-800 EVO and the Veyron Mosfet.

Who knows how they came up with the 2000 watts rating. 500 watts? I feel pretty confident with saying that I think it is more powerful than that. With respect to volume, it compares very favorably to the amps that I named above which are rated at 800 watts RMS. 

Edited by ebozzz
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@ebozzz - great to have your practical experience, which obviously counts for a lot.

Very useful for the rest of us that you decided to get both to A/B them; and very encouraging to anyone thinking of taking the plunge that you kept both for over a year and still have one.

If you're saying that both the M and T stack up well against the other 800 watt amps you have, then that suggests that 800W is a fair label to put on them and frankly that's plenty for most gigs where the venue doesn't have a sound system.

A few Qs from me:

i) when you turn the volume dial does the amp pretty quickly get to a high volume and then rapidly taper off in terms of additional volume or does it continue to increase all the way up? And how does that compare with the Quilter and Ashdown amps you have?

ii) in terms of delivering that "warm valve amp sound" was there much difference between the M and T in what their pre-amps deliver?

iii) does the on board compressor add much / is it any good?

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