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Fingers and the audience


ped

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4 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Well, if you don't use your fingers at all, the bass is silent unless you throw it to the ground (woughly, Centurion!) or wind the amp up for booming feedback, so I'd say nearly all bass playing is about the fingers. No fingers, no bass, as Bob Marley probably said.

Well... you could use a pick. :D

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By this same reasoning, are there any brave enough to listen to the hi-hat and say whether it's a Zildian, Paiste or Sabian (others are available; the list is long...), and what diameter, or model..? Is that a Vistalite kit on that track or are they oak shells..? What sticks..? Nylon-tipped or not..? Does any drummer, in any of your bands, change snare drums, mid-set, to get 'that' sound..? Hmm... I'm not suggesting that there is no difference at all in basses, but I certainly think (in fact, I'm pretty convinced...) that it's very much over-thunk by bass players (well, those on this forum, anyway...). I've known lots of players that are more concerned about the difference between accented semi-quavers and staccato notes than what wood the fingerboard is made from. An interesting enough subject, of course, but with no possible conclusion, in my view.

Edited by Dad3353
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24 minutes ago, discreet said:

I think you're missing my point somewhat... I don't try to sound like I'm playing a specific type of bass, I sound like me, playing a bass. I'm not after a Ray sound or a Spector sound or a Warwick sound. I think I read in the last thread from the South East Bass Bash there was a blind testing of various different basses and those present were surprised at how few basses they were actually able to identify from their tone... I wasn't there, but I can believe it.

What I'm trying to say is that what you actually play - and in what context -  is much more important than what kind of bass you're playing, or what strings you use, or what amp you like to gig with. Having said that, I can't deny that I'm perfectly happy to come on here and discuss basses, strings, amps and so on. ;)

Well maybe I’m missing your point, but only after you missed mine!

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27 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

I can hear the other members of my band all saying “WTF are you lot on about?? Lol” 

And with good reason…

Surely everything in the chain from you striking a note to it reaching the listener’s ears has an effect on the end sound / tone / whatever. This can range from a tiny effect (like what lead you use) to a massive one (roundwound or flatwound strings). The biggest impact on the sound is how you strike the string i.e. your fingers (both left and right hand of course). This is because: a) the inherent tonal quality of your fingers is unique to you and; b) this is the first stage of generating the note and therefore impacts on everything further down the chain.

I would have thought that most people, if they really tried, could tell the difference between a Stingray and a Jazz. But if I play a Stingray or a Jazz, it certainly sounds noticeably different, but it still sounds like me playing a Stingray or a Jazz. Similarly, if you were to get up and sit in with my band and play through my gear with the same settings, you won’t sound like me, but like you playing through my rig.

I think that the main reason that people can’t seem to be able to tell the difference is that they simply don’t care. A Stingray and a Jazz may well sound a bit different, but the chances are that you will be able to get a tone from either of them that will work with virtually all types of music that use an electric bass guitar. There are hundreds of good bass sounds available (and even more bad ones) and as long as the bass sounds good I don’t think that anyone who isn’t on Basschat, the odd recording producer or an overly fussy band leader really cares. This is very different to an instrument like a guitar, which works in a register that people hear more clearly and really defines the sound of the music the band are playing. Van Halen and SRV each have / had great, iconic rock guitar sounds, but Eddie’s ‘brown’ sound would not have worked on SRV’s albums any more than Stevie’s would have worked on Running With The Devil…! 

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43 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

I play with a guitarist who much prefers the sound of my white P bass to anything else - even other P basses. He even comments if I have changed the strings, but everyone else I use the 'different colour' line, even when they're the same!

 

But - being serious for a moment - maybe your white P Bass sounds different to him. Maybe it sounds different, full stop (although we all hear things differently so what he hears might not be what you hear). Ignoring the issue of whether one make/model of instrument sounds different to another, in my experience, which I like to think is considerable, I've never even heard 2 instruments of the same make/model that sound absolutely identical when played side by side, although obviously this is dependent to some degree on how good your ears are. For instance I've had 17 or so Rics and everyone I've ever worked with - not just me - will tell you how different they've all sounded to each other.

Would anyone say that someone when playing a Hammond has the same actual sound as when they're playing a piano, simply because it's the same person playing it? That someone playing a Strat, clean, has the same actual sound as when playing a Les Paul through a cranked Marshall, even when playing the same notes?

The other thing is why do you need someone else to tell you whether an instrument sounds different or not if you can hear the difference? Whether they can hear it or not, if you can hear it, then so far as you're concerned it's different and that's all that matters.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Fingerplate, scratchboard, picktrum....the list grows daily!

The action was a bit high on one of my basses so I spranged the floggle toggle a bit, adjusted each of the cringlewangers and then reset the flangoplonge. 

Played beautifully afterwards.

Edited by Bridgehouse
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47 minutes ago, discreet said:

I think you're missing my point somewhat... I don't try to sound like I'm playing a specific type of bass, I sound like me, playing a bass. I'm not after a Ray sound or a Spector sound or a Warwick sound.

Maybe this is the crux of the issue. I use a specific bass for its sound and the way it makes me play, I don't try to impose myself on it.

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23 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

By this same reasoning, are there any brave enough to listen to the hi-hat and say whether it's a Zildian, Paiste or Sabian (others are available; the list is long...), and what diameter, or model..? Is that a Vistalite kit on that track or are they oak shells..? What sticks..? Nylon-tipped or not..? Does any drummer, in any of your bands, change snare drums, mid-set, to get 'that' sound..? Hmm... I'm not suggesting that there is no difference at all in basses, but I certainly think (in fact, I'm pretty convinced...) that it's very much over-thunk by bass players (well, those on this forum, anyway...). I've known lots of players that are more concerned about the difference between accented semi-quavers and staccato notes than what wood the fingerboard is made from. An interesting enough subject, of course, but with no possible conclusion, in my view.

Drums can sound different???

Seriously, though, I have recordings of myself in studios and live, and can't tell from listening whether I was playing a Precision or a Jazz, or a Gibson, or an Alembic, or even one of my Ibanez six strings. In fact, I can't really tell for sure whether I was using a pick or fingers on that day. 

I think pretty much every bass I've played can be made to sound very similar to the others. They may sound different at extreme settings, but at the sort of settings that suit the music I play, they are interchangeable.

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1. "Whatever bass you play, you'll sound like you'' / ''It's all in the fingers''

I agree with this 100%. All of us have our unique perfect bass tone in our heads. No mather wich bass we pick up we'll attack it, place the right hand, set the tone knobs in the bass and EQ the amp in order to find "our sound". So, in the end, in the hands of a player a Musicman or a Precision or a Jazz will sound pretty similar after all that tinkering (exceptions exist obviously, if one wants to play slap lines all the time it will be dificult, but not impossible, to do it on a P). The reason we have so many variety of basses available on the market is to make it easier for each one to find "that bass" that comes with "our sound" out of the box with minimal tinkering. I've found it, thankfully, after trying lots of basses, amps and cabs. I can say that i have the perfect combination for "my tone" TRB5PII (prosteels) / Shuttle 9.2 / BF S12T all set flat! All nuances in sound come from moving the balance knob and changing right hand placement. I've played with lots of diferent gear over the years but sould allways got close to my tone with a bit of EQ here and there. In fact, my drummer who's been playing with me for over 10 years has often commented on why i bothered with gear so much as i allways sounded the same in his ears (and he's not deaf... yet). My current lead guitarrist is in the same place right now, he's been changing his amplification in search for "that amp" but everytime he gets a new toy he'll EQ it and end up sounding like the one before.

2. "It doesn't matter what you play (gear wise), the audience won't be able to tell the difference"

The gear we choose to play is the gear that produces the sound we want and that is the sound we know will blend in perfectly with the rest of the band and make everything sound good. If anybody in the audience notices the bass, most of the times, it will mean that there's something wrong with the gear/tone. When i look to the audience and see that everybody is only paying attention to the frontman whilst shaking their bodies to the groove i know that everything is perfect with my sound/gear.

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7 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

The action was a bit high on one of my basses so I spranged the floggle toggle a bit, adjusted each of the cringlewangers and then reset the flangoplonge. 

Played beautifully afterwards.

How much do you charge for a full set-up? You obviously know what you're doing! I don't think my local chap would know where to start to adjust the cringlewangers, and I can hear they aren't right when I play my bass.

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4 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

How much do you charge for a full set-up? You obviously know what you're doing! I don't think my local chap would know where to start to adjust the cringlewangers, and I can hear they aren't right when I play my bass.

The cringlewangers require precise timing alignment or your playing will be slightly behind the beat. 

I use a special cringletimer:

dad872187960269c53f5e47dcbbadc5d.jpg

which attaches to the gripper splark and lets you manage the timing properly. Careful of cowboys who say they can set these using the guitar version (they are a totally different tool:)

lego-watch-300x250.jpg

 

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8 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

How much do you charge for a full set-up? You obviously know what you're doing! I don't think my local chap would know where to start to adjust the cringlewangers, and I can hear they aren't right when I play my bass.

Cringlewangers are adjustable..? o.O

...

:lol: :P

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On 16/10/2018 at 10:48, ped said:

Nobody can make a Precision bass sound like a Musicman just by the way they play.

Very true, but whatever bass I'm using, I'll EQ the amp to best match the sound that I have in my head.

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