TC, Mooer, Valeton - End game for high-price pedals?

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, tonyclaret said:

Valeton, never heard of them until now! Just checked out their Bass Dapper, the octaver sounds good compared to the tech 21! 

 

If only it had an envelope filter instead of the chorus...

EDIT: I mean the "Dirty Q". That fuzzy sound does nothing for me, and they chose a "Bass Balls" type of filter when their Katfish envelope filter is beautiful on bass... pity.

Edited October 27, 2018 by mcnach

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, tonyclaret said:

Valeton, never heard of them until now! Just checked out their Bass Dapper, the octaver sounds good compared to the tech 21! 

Hah! Welcome to the Valeton appreciation society. Just about EVERYONE I know who has tried their OC-10 pedal has been bowled over at just how good a clone of the Boss OC-2 it is; and it means we can get that classic OC-2 sound without needing to fork out £80 to £100 for a piece of kit that is a couple of decades old, for a lot less and with a smaller footprint! What's not to like?  

@Japhet will be along shortly, no doubt, to share how good he's been finding their FP-10.

[Japhet]

Joyo American Sound on the way to try out on the cheapies pedal board. Looking forward to this one. Hopefully it will work as an 'always on' source of mild break up. Can't resist giving this a try for under £30.

[rmorris]

On 20/10/2018 at 21:58, radiophonic said:

The cheap end doesn't really innovate though. The only reason you can get a cheap-donkey bitcrusher is because somebody thought to make an expensive one that sold. I doubt it's that challenging technically, but you have to have the idea. I also think there are certain effects that are harder to do right - cheap reverbs can be proper nasty.  Guys like Digitech, Boss and TC who have access to all the Lexicon, Roland and Helicon algorithms are pretty safe for now I think. When it comes to overpriced Klon, Rat and Tubescreamer clones it's game over though. Or at least it should be. 

 

Edit: Donkey. Swear filter.

Probably about right. The technical innovation comes more from TC / Zoom / Roland etc etc who have the resources to exploit DSP etc.

That's very different to a 'boutique' fuzz box - say some variation of a 'fuzz face' circuit - that has an enormous price tag given the component cost.

Essentially comes down to economies of scale and manufacture / distribution - if I'm making pedals as my only work and I'm shifting just ten pedals a week I still need to price to make a living - and my unit cost to make will probably be more than the retail cost of a 'cheap' pedal made in China or wherever. And, of course, seeking out / selecting / sorting any 'magic' transistors etc.

I can try and bridge the gap by being extra helpful / available etc but the price gap remains huge.

 

[uk_lefty]

I don't think cheap pedals will kill off the big and established names. Hopefully it makes them up their game, push to innovate more and make me want their new pedals and sounds. Then there's the price point issue, will it mean Boss for example does a cheaper range to compete with Behringer, or are the margins so low its not worth doing to them and they don't want to degrade the £80 per pedal position of their main brand?

Either way, I'm glad there's cheap pedals about. If my multi effects experiment fails I can buy my missing bits off the cheaper end of the market for experimenting. And of course BC has enough good quality reviews of things the second they hit the market!

Edited October 31, 2018 by uk_lefty

[Al Krow]

@uk_lefty I'm inclined to agree.

There are two pedals I currently have significant GAS for: one costs £465 (Helix Stomp) and the other likely £350 (3Leaf Chromatron) and as they have both just come out, there is ZERO chance of getting a used one until 2020. Not sure I can wait that long  

(Goodness gracious, I'll be thinking about getting Chase Bliss pedals next! )

Point is there is nothing at the "budget" end that is going to really come close to the Stomp and possibly not the Chromatron if the hype is to be believed (we're all waiting for some bass demos on that one).

But I wonder if it just means the market is going to split in two with the Valetons and Mooers sweeping up the mass market end by providing high quality budget alternatives and folk who "love their pedals" willing to fork out for premium products?

Edited October 31, 2018 by Al Krow

[uk_lefty]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@uk_lefty I'm inclined to agree.

There are two pedals I currently have significant GAS for: one costs £465 (Helix Stomp) and the other likely £350 (3Leaf Chromatron) and as they have both just come out, there is ZERO chance of getting a used one until 2020. Not sure I can wait that long  

Goodness gracious, I'll be thinking about getting Chase Bliss pedals next! 

But I wonder if it just means the market is going to split in two with the Valetons and Mooers sweeping up the mass market end by providing high quality budget alternatives and folk who "love their pedals" willing to fork out for premium products?

Probably. But I've bought enough shite in the cheap end of the market that I've been scared off Mooer and Behringer but I am from Yorkshire so there's no effing way I'm spending more than £100 on a single-effect pedal. I can be a bit of a "brand snob" but only a bit... So I do have faith in Boss, EHX, moreso than the cheaper brands and I'm wary of brands I haven't heard of.

When I was starting out though a £20-£30 useable pedal would have been very welcome. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by uk_lefty

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, uk_lefty said:

...but I am from Yorkshire so there's no effing way I'm spending more than £100 on a single-effect pedal.

So being from Yorkshire what would you spend good money on?  

[uk_lefty]

38 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So being from Yorkshire what would you spend good money on?  

Nowt.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, uk_lefty said:

Nowt.

Does that mean you have enough spare cash behind the sofa to sort out your mid life crisis then? 😁

[uk_lefty]

I'm saving up for that.

[The59Sound]

What budget options are out there for a low-mid OD with a blend? 

[Japhet]

14 minutes ago, The59Sound said:

What budget options are out there for a low-mid OD with a blend? 

Not come across anything with a dedicated blend option but generally speaking a low to mid drive pedal maintains more of your clean signal the less drive you add. Anything that does a decent job maintaining the low end should work well enough. I'd recommend the Joyo American Sound, the Caline Orange Burst and the TC Mojomojo for starters.

[The59Sound]

Thanks!

A Muff style fuzz with a mid control would be amazing...

[dannybuoy]

On 09/11/2018 at 13:19, The59Sound said:

What budget options are out there for a low-mid OD with a blend? 

This, but you're too late, it's sold!

 

[cattytown]

On 31/10/2018 at 17:09, Al Krow said:

There are two pedals I currently have significant GAS for: one costs £465 (Helix Stomp) and the other likely £350 (3Leaf Chromatron) and as they have both just come out, there is ZERO chance of getting a used one until 2020. Not sure I can wait that long  

I don't know. I think forums like this and ebay mean some people will take a punt on an expensive accessory and move it on if they don't like it. It can be awkward finding stock local to try.

I know DSR and return policies make it easier to mailorder but I always feel guilty returning once I have opened the packaging if sealed. I was surprised how quickly the first hyperluminal hit the marketplace here.

Paul.

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, cattytown said:

I don't know. I think forums like this and ebay mean some people will take a punt on an expensive accessory and move it on if they don't like it. It can be awkward finding stock local to try.

I know DSR and return policies make it easier to mailorder but I always feel guilty returning once I have opened the packaging if sealed. I was surprised how quickly the first hyperluminal hit the marketplace here.

Paul.

Actually I fully agree with you on much of that, including only buying stuff I genuinely want to have and not wanting to be a "return merchant". A lot of retailers operate on pretty thin margins and returns can really screw up their business. 

I guess I was less surprised by both the hype and the subsequent returns surrounding the hyperluminal though

[Sibob]

There will always be a market for both, I think the previously mentioned 'split' already exists. There are a LOT of people who want to, and have the means, to support small companies making great hand-made goods. There are equally people who either don't have the means, or simply don't care about where/how their gear is made to support a more budget orientated market.
You only have to see how well such companies as Abominable Pedals, Darkglass, Earthquaker, JHS, Mr Black are doing to see realise that people want boutique, they will pay for hand-made.

In most cases (although not always) they will be better made and sound better, but actually, I don't think that's everything to the purchasers, they want to support small business, and like having a real relationship with small pedal builders, it's a very close-knit community.

Si

[Jack]

There's always going to cork sniffers who feel superior because their latest handmade-by-craftsmen pedal cost £600 and there's always going to be cheapskates that feel superior because their ebay special is just as good and costs £19.99. The reality is that most of us are somewhere in the middle. I think there's enough people buying pedals to keep a lot of pedal companies in business.