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Loud mesa head advice


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Hi everyone

I'm just after a little help with reducing the output volume on my Mesa M6 Fathom/Carbine head

I've recently bought it and used it last night with a Mesa Powerhouse 8 ohm 2x10 and a Precision bass in a large pub. It sounds fantastic but it's stupidly loud with gain on half and the volume on circa 1!!!! Is there any advice to reduce the input maybe and would using the active circuit with my passive bass be detrimental to my sound in any way? Or do I lift the output and just lower the gain....

Thanks

Mike

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Edited by Guest
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I have the same head. I run the gain at about 9 o’clock and the master often less than that. 

I play through a Mesa 6x10 so that is why I don’t crank the volume! However it is equally loud through my old 8 ohm Trace Elliot 1x15. The gain has never been higher than 10 o’clock. It is a clean amp so you are not losing out on ‘valve warmth’ by running it on low gain settings. I would do that before looking to get attenuator. 

I personally think that the amp is too loud, which saying something because I own a Trace Elliot V6 and EBS Fafner.  

The volume taper on the Mesa M6 is like an old Marshall amp in the that  the output volume goes from zero to stupidly loud with little in between. I have to run the gain ridiculously low as otherwise it is impossible to obtain a usuable output on the master volume setting. 

The tone of the Mesa though is brilliant why is why I have kept it. 

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4 hours ago, HazBeen said:

Ehm, roll back the gain...?

Yep,  that's the easiest thing to do, it won;t change things that much. A few other things to think about.

1. Look at using EQ to address gain/volume, small cuts at certain frequencies can make a huge difference to the overall level.

2. What was your reference point for 'too loud'? You? A competent sound-guy? The audience? The guitarist/singer? All of these have different perspectives. Show me a guitarist who doesn't think the bass should turn down a little and I'll eat my trousers. Sound-guys/audience on the other hand tend to be more objective (although not always). Also 'too loud' can be a genre/taste thing as much as a statement of fact (bass is front and centre in some genres, background thump in others). Did you record the gig, might help you get an objective view?  

3. In relation to the above, also think about where the rig was on the stage, specifically its proximity to other musicians/PA etc? The sound on stage can be very zonal, with some lucky audience/band members receiving viscera modifying bass tone with other getting none at all.    

4. The Powerhouse 2x10 is also a very punchy cab, which IME cuts through way more than an equivalent 1x15.

Bottom line however is that you need to rehearse with the same rig you're going to gig and get the balance in rehearsal to a point that the whole band are happy, otherwise you can waste whole gigs trying to get the right tone/volume.  

And just for the record, a bass cannot be too loud :)

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5 hours ago, Beedster said:

Show me a guitarist who doesn't think the bass should turn down a little and I'll eat my trousers. 

Start munching, both of my guitarists like the bass up front in the mix 

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8 hours ago, Beedster said:

Yep,  that's the easiest thing to do, it won;t change things that much. A few other things to think about.

1. Look at using EQ to address gain/volume, small cuts at certain frequencies can make a huge difference to the overall level.

2. What was your reference point for 'too loud'? You? A competent sound-guy? The audience? The guitarist/singer? All of these have different perspectives. Show me a guitarist who doesn't think the bass should turn down a little and I'll eat my trousers. Sound-guys/audience on the other hand tend to be more objective (although not always). Also 'too loud' can be a genre/taste thing as much as a statement of fact (bass is front and centre in some genres, background thump in others). Did you record the gig, might help you get an objective view?  

3. In relation to the above, also think about where the rig was on the stage, specifically its proximity to other musicians/PA etc? The sound on stage can be very zonal, with some lucky audience/band members receiving viscera modifying bass tone with other getting none at all.    

4. The Powerhouse 2x10 is also a very punchy cab, which IME cuts through way more than an equivalent 1x15.

Bottom line however is that you need to rehearse with the same rig you're going to gig and get the balance in rehearsal to a point that the whole band are happy, otherwise you can waste whole gigs trying to get the right tone/volume.  

And just for the record, a bass cannot be too loud :)

Thanks for this great advice 👍

Edited by Guest
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If you want the amp to be quieter when you're driving it hard, there used to be devices you would put in the speaker circuit that would soak up that power - had a quick look on line and they are still being made although mostly not cheap. Search for amp attenuators.

Or get a less efficient cab.

Or, how are the speakers wired in your cab - if in parallel then maybe they could be rewired in series to present a bigger load to the amp - no idea if that would affect the tone or not but as long as the effective resistance was within the amp's capabilities, it might be worth trying?

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A weird case of deja vu! I had the very same thing when I got an M6 Carbine amp & posted pretty much the same question to Basschat. Let’s just say I no longer have the amp but still think it’s the best sounding amp I’ve ever owned. Just couldn’t tame the loudness! Sorry that’s not much help & probably not what you want to hear 😟

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  • 4 months later...
Guest oZZma
On 07/10/2018 at 10:32, Paddy515 said:

Could an attenuator be used in the signal chain? Ive wondered this when using an Ampeg head.

Has anyone tried this? I have a problem with my guitar head (too loose, maybe because I don't push the tubes enough?), I wonder if it really makes difference, where do you place the attenuator? In the effects loop or right before the cab?

I found the schematics and seems a pretty basic build... not sure if it's safe for a beginner builder to do it because if it fails I will burn the amp, if it goes after the power section. Sorry for the stupid questions but I'm a beginner and I haven't even heard about "attenuators" until yesterday LOL :biggrin:

Edited by oZZma
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Why not just turn your bass volume down ?

Does using the wireless not take you into active territory as it's now an electronic signal rather than passive. (i'm curious about that myself)

I've used my Jazz bass in both active and passive modes on my Mesa Mpulse and never noticed any difference in tone. Just a change in volume.

On the other hand i mistakenly played my active PJ in passive mode and it sounded quite flat.

Dave

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2 hours ago, oZZma said:

Has anyone tried this? I have a problem with my guitar head (too loose, maybe because I don't push the tubes enough?), I wonder if it really makes difference, where do you place the attenuator? In the effects loop or right before the cab?

 

Attenuators work on the post-power stage output, so they need to be between the amp output and the cab.

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On 07/10/2018 at 09:32, Paddy515 said:

Could an attenuator be used in the signal chain? Ive wondered this when using an Ampeg head.

 

2 hours ago, oZZma said:

Has anyone tried this? I have a problem with my guitar head (too loose, maybe because I don't push the tubes enough?), I wonder if it really makes difference, where do you place the attenuator? In the effects loop or right before the cab?

I found the schematics and seems a pretty basic build... not sure if it's safe for a beginner builder to do it because if it fails I will burn the amp, if it goes after the power section. Sorry for the stupid questions but I'm a beginner and I haven't even heard about "attenuators" until yesterday LOL :biggrin:

 

2 minutes ago, pete.young said:

Attenuators work on the post-power stage output, so they need to be between the amp output and the cab.

An attenuator is essentially a volume control for your speakers. 

They work fine on guitar rigs where you are unlikely to find amps rated over 100W and pushing the output valves hard is part of the guitar sound. However all the ones I have seen are rated for use with amps of 100W or less and use 1/4" jack connections which rules them out for use with most serious bass rigs. On top of that the good ones are big and heavy as they are full of high-powered resistors, with heat sinks and fans to cool said resistors.

As other have said a device with a volume control in the effects loop (provided that it comes after the pre-amp valves) should be a more suitable solution.

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Turn the gain down, turn the bass down, join a louder band.

Do you have a pedal boosting your volume?

Was this gig a quiet gig? If your other gigs are louder then this amp might work, otherwise, as good as it sounds, seems like you have an amp for a louder band. Buy a smaller amp for gigs like this and use the louder head when you can.

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My Mpulse with an 8ohm cab at home i have the GAIN at approx 12 o'clock mid-point and Master Volume between 9 o'clock and 10 which i think is between 2-3 on a 0-10 scale.

At rehearsals the master will be between 3-4 or 10 o'clock and 11.

That drops by approx 1 when using my 4ohm cab.

Must be a very quiet gig you were playing or the M6 is a lot louder than my Mpulse.

Dave

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