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How do you pull a decent tone an old Trace Elliot amp?


project_c

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The picture also has a 70s vintage porno film colour tint quality about it.  Not that I've seen any, of course.

Tone is very subjective.  For me getting a decent tone out of an old Trace Elliot is easy - eq flat, pre-shape one engaged, adjust the balance for boominess depending upon the room - job done.

 

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1 hour ago, Paul S said:

Tone is very subjective.  For me getting a decent tone out of an old Trace Elliot is easy - eq flat, pre-shape one engaged, adjust the balance for boominess depending upon the room - job done.

When you said you preferred a Trace over a V3 Rumble I thought you were nuts. But now, I'm really not so sure... :)

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Well, I completely acknowledge that I am in a small minority but I much prefer a mid-scooped sound.  It doesn't cut through like a mid-boost but it is gentler and gives the tone that I am looking for that underpins the rest of the band without being too prominent .  I hate those tuba-like honky noises that some sound engineers produce at some venues - sounds like a flock of geese passing overhead.  I found the Rumble too middy and punchy - the very things that most folk are looking for.  I was also looking for light and loud and, for me, it wasn't quite light or loud enough.  But that is just me.

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11 minutes ago, Paul S said:

Well, I completely acknowledge that I am in a small minority but I much prefer a mid-scooped sound.  It doesn't cut through like a mid-boost but it is gentler and gives the tone that I am looking for that underpins the rest of the band without being too prominent .  I hate those tuba-like honky noises that some sound engineers produce at some venues - sounds like a flock of geese passing overhead.  I found the Rumble too middy and punchy - the very things that most folk are looking for.  I was also looking for light and loud and, for me, it wasn't quite light or loud enough.  But that is just me.

Fair enough, but Trace doesn't necessarily mean a mid-scooped sound. There is a huge db range available on the graphic EQ, and very small movements can equate to very big changes in overall sound. I think people imagine that because the physical movement of the graphic sliders is quite small, they're not important, somehow. And I found the Rumble can have a lot of low end - if you want it. But then I don't play that loud live. :)

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52 minutes ago, discreet said:

Fair enough, but Trace doesn't necessarily mean a mid-scooped sound. There is a huge db range available on the graphic EQ, and very small movements can equate to very big changes in overall sound. I think people imagine that because the physical movement of the graphic sliders is quite small, they're not important, somehow. And I found the Rumble can have a lot of low end - if you want it. But then I don't play that loud live. :)

Well, no - the scooped bit comes with pre-shape 1.  Without engaging that the eq can be most things for most people, I guess - I just happen to really like pre-shape 1 :)  Which makes Life pretty straightforward for me. 

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I'm another self confessed TE fan. I loved my huge TE rig and my drummer gets excited when we have a trace in the rehearsal rooms. I'd say if it's impossible to get a useable tone the amp itself may need a service. It's old gear, chances are it could have been thrashed by someone previously, dropped, left in a damp garage for ten years, etc. While not everyone loves the classic trace tone there still should be a good acceptable place to be found in the EQ options. 

I used to hate Ashdowns until i used one that hadnt been abused by a previous owner.

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7 minutes ago, Paul S said:

Well, no - the scooped bit comes with pre-shape 1.  Without engaging that the eq can be most things for most people, I guess - I just happen to really like pre-shape 1 :)  Which makes Life pretty straightforward for me. 

Yes, that's kind of what I meant. I think some people (not you) think that all you need to do is press that preshape button then overload the EQ circuit by maxing out the graphic sliders  - then (unsurprisingly) they don't like the resulting sound and think Trace amps are no good. Like most things worth doing the Trace EQ needs time spending on it. Trace is NOT 'instant gratification' gear. :) Totally agree that Trace can be all things to all people - if it is addressed with an open mind.

What I particularly like is the slam - I'm no techie but I believe this has something to do with the way the power stage works. That big iron round thing is involved. :D The fact that they are reliable doesn't hurt, either.

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10 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

I'd say if it's impossible to get a useable tone the amp itself may need a service. It's old gear, chances are it could have been thrashed by someone previously, dropped, left in a damp garage for ten years, etc. While not everyone loves the classic trace tone there still should be a good acceptable place to be found in the EQ options.

Good point - the combo I just picked up had been recently serviced. It does smell like a church however, which is a bit unsettling. But it sounds just great. Took it to rehearsal last night and listened to the recordings this morning - the bass is round, warm, punchy and articulate. You wouldn't know it's a Trace combo just by listening. But it does have a dual-band compressor, which fattens things up no end... :)

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My issue disliking TE amps was that they were common on rehearsal rooms around here... but typically old, battered things, abused, with speakers in bad shape sometimes...

When I've used TE rigs belonging to individuals who looked after them, they were good. The best two were the same combo, a 210 (I forget the actual model), one by itself as stage monitor, and another with an extension cab (a 115 or maybe another 210)... and I really enjoyed those.

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7 minutes ago, mcnach said:

My issue disliking TE amps was that they were common on rehearsal rooms around here... but typically old, battered things, abused, with speakers in bad shape sometimes...

Yes, comparing old gear with new soundwise is a bit apples and pears when you take condition into consideration - and you really have to think about this when (and if) you buy a used Trace. But they're so cheap to buy, the cost of a service and general once-over doesn't have much impact.

Edited by discreet
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On 06/10/2018 at 23:12, project_c said:

Played through an old Trace Elliot head / cab today and I could not get a decent tone out of that thing no matter what I did. I'm not sure of the exact model, looked like a similar era to the AH300, red gain knob, green volume knob, 'baked-in tone' on/off switch, going into a Trace 1048H 410 cab, and it just sounded terrible whatever I tried. It was boomy, honky and undefined, and the EQ was there, but not really helping. The gain either sounded like it wasn't being pushed, or it would suddenly sound like it was being pushed too hard and straight to fart city. Basically pretty much everything you don't want from a bass amp. I could also not dial out the horrible nu-metal tone that was lurking under all the woolly boxy terribleness. I was playing a Fender Jazz through it, no pedals, so nothing unusual there, but it was a struggle for sure. 

I'm not hating on TE, I have a knackered Commando combo which I love and use regularly, but I'm thinking I might be missing something with these old heads and cabs, anyone have any suggestions for how I can get something useful out of them next time?

 

I have almost the same experience with older TE gear. Including liking a knackered old commando I briefly had. 

Bass amps have moved on so much since TE were in there prime so to say. That isn't to say the older amps don't have there place. TE amps are loud, the ones still going seem to be reliable, and there often found reasonably priced. And while I don't like there tone many people do. But compared to most modern amps the classic TE tone sounds a bit dated to me, or is that the tone is out of fashion maybe. 

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They do sound old fashioned I suppose, but one person's out of date is another person's classic vintage. All in the ear of the listener. I confess a nostalgia for the early 80s when I was thin, and when the charts might feature the odd decent band now and then. My first proper amp was TE so my views are clouded.

Damn those cabs are heavy though.

Edited by stewblack
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Yes, TE amps have a 'sound'. But you can choose to change it. That's what the famed Graphic EQ is for. I don't use the pre-shape preset and I don't use the 'smiling face' EQ curve. Why would I? Whether or not they sound 'old fashioned' is up to the user, IMHO.

Does an Ampeg B15 sound old fashioned? Does an SVT sound old fashioned? 

And yes, they can be quite heavy. A Trace combo generally weighs more than a modern combo. But it's not like one is immovable and the other is a feather. It's all relative. A modern combo might be 15kg. It's light - for a bass amp. But you still wouldn't want to walk any great distance carrying it.

In short, hauling gear is always a bit of a pain in the àrse at the best of times, whether your combo weighs 15kg or 25kg. For me, both would require wheeled assistance if covering more than around 50 yards, so the weight advantage is moot.

I'm not a Trace fanboi by any means, but the combo I have does exactly what I want it to do, the build quality is astounding, it's stood the test of time (20+ years) and it was a bargain! :)

 

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Just now, discreet said:

Yes, TE amps have a 'sound'. But you can choose to change it. That's what the famed Graphic EQ is for. I don't use the pre-shape preset and I don't use the 'smiling face' EQ curve. Why would I? Whether or not they sound 'old fashioned' is up to the user, IMHO.

Does an Ampeg B15 sound old fashioned? Does an SVT sound old fashioned? 

And yes, they can be quite heavy. A Trace combo generally weighs more than a modern combo. But it's not like one is immovable and the other is a feather. It's all relative. A modern combo might be 15kg. It's light - for a bass amp. But you still wouldn't want to walk any great distance carrying it.

In short, hauling gear is always a bit of a pain in the àrse at the best of times, whether your combo weighs 15kg or 25kg. For me, both would require wheeled assistance if covering more than around 50 yards, so the weight advantage is moot.

I'm not a Trace fanboi by any means, but the combo I have does exactly what I want it to do, the build quality is astounding, it's stood the test of time (20+ years) and it was a bargain! :)

 

I agree. I’m considering one for in the music room at home.. as a fixed bit of kit the weight would be immaterial. Er, as long as floor could take it.. 😂

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30 minutes ago, discreet said:

Yes, TE amps have a 'sound'. But you can choose to change it. That's what the famed Graphic EQ is for. I don't use the pre-shape preset and I don't use the 'smiling face' EQ curve. Why would I? Whether or not they sound 'old fashioned' is up to the user, IMHO.

Does an Ampeg B15 sound old fashioned? Does an SVT sound old fashioned? 

And yes, they can be quite heavy. A Trace combo generally weighs more than a modern combo. But it's not like one is immovable and the other is a feather. It's all relative. A modern combo might be 15kg. It's light - for a bass amp. But you still wouldn't want to walk any great distance carrying it.

In short, hauling gear is always a bit of a pain in the àrse at the best of times, whether your combo weighs 15kg or 25kg. For me, both would require wheeled assistance if covering more than around 50 yards, so the weight advantage is moot.

I'm not a Trace fanboi by any means, but the combo I have does exactly what I want it to do, the build quality is astounding, it's stood the test of time (20+ years) and it was a bargain! :)

 

The b15 and svt tones are old fashioned but there timeless and imo more useable. You can pretty much still buy those amps new which says something. The te sound has a niche but it's not timeless. 

To me TE always sounds like a TE no matter what I did with the eq. Even though i didn't like the tone, i like amps that have a certain manufactures baked in character. And it's good people like different things. 

They were certainly well built. And I hate to sound cliched but they seem better built than a lot of modern stuff. Especially the combos. 

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