What do audiences really want from the bass player?

[dmccombe7]

So what was this thread about ?

[Wolverinebass]

My name is Ozymandias, king of kings;
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Wrong thread? Oh....

[skankdelvar]

3 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

So what was this thread about ?

Apparently some chap hired 60 native drummers for a Burundi beat covers band and they were all excellent apart from one of them who thought the others were useless and came on here to unburden himself of this opinion then flounced off to set up his own Burundi beat act and at their first gig the bass player walked onstage, struck a heroic pose for the audience and his trousers fell down.

That's about the gist of it.

Edited October 6, 2018 by skankdelvar

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, Bridgehouse said:

Can you flounce a bit more discreetly next time?

Very nicely put. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Al Krow

[Bluewine]

14 hours ago, discreet said:

Well yes, it's averages. Some have been good but most just aren't. But I don't go out of my way to see them. Maybe my pub-band standards are unreasonably high, somehow.

A good band needs a good drummer, and they are few and far between. In fact, all band members need to be at least competent and the chances of this happening are slim, realistically. Especially as most pub bands tend to be amateur.

A good dependable drummer that understands his role in the band and a competent engaging front person.

4 grey haired guys over 60 years old merely standing up there thinking it's still 1971 would be a hard sell.

Blue

Edited October 6, 2018 by Bluewine

[chris_b]

6 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

4 grey haired guys over 60 years old merely standing up there thinking it's still 1971 . . . .

So you've seen my band!

[peteb]

17 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Singers are the focal point of any band, I agree, for most of the audience. 

Again we are massively fortunate down in the "Big Smoke" that there are so many really good musicians of all varieties down here. In fact I decided the only way I was going to get into a band as a novice bass player 5 years back was to start my own band up. One of the best things I ever did

Whereabouts are you based? 

Anyway best go get my sh*t together for tonight's pub gig 😄

I'm based in West Yorkshire (used to live in London more than half a lifetime ago)! 

Just got back from my pub gig, one that would confirm the worst fears of all the doomsayers on here i.e.only about 15 people there! Next gig is at a venue that always gets packed, so swings and roundabouts

The thing is that I know plenty of decent drummers and several great guitar players, but it is very difficult to find a lead vocalist who has the pipes, can front a band and isn't completely mad. As you say, the singer is the focal point - it doesn't matter how good a band is, if the singer isn't up to scratch you are always going to struggle...!

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by peteb

[mikel]

5 hours ago, peteb said:

I'm based in West Yorkshire (used to live in London more than half a lifetime ago)! 

Just got back from my pub gig, one that would confirm the worst fears of all the doomsayers on here i.e.only about 15 people there! Next gig is at a venue that always gets packed, so swings and roundabouts

The thing is that I know plenty of decent drummers and several great guitar players, but it is very difficult to find a lead vocalist who has the pipes, can front a band and isn't completely mad. As you say, the singer is the focal.point - it doesn't matter how good a band is, if the singer isn't up to scratch you are always going to struggle...!

 

/\ This.

Unless its an instrumental act the singer is key. I have seen some stunning pub bands, and some mediocre pro touring acts, so doing it simply for the love of music does not mean the musicians will not be high quality. I go to see a band and be entertained and the singer front person is a huge part of that, If they cant put the melody and lyrics over then what the rest of the band is doing is largely wasted. I am a bassist and a drummer but I never go to check out said musicians, I go to see the band.

[dmccombe7]

12 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

My name is Ozymandias, king of kings;
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Wrong thread? Oh....

I've got an album with that song on it somewhere.

Mandalaband III BC-Ancestors

 

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by dmccombe7

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, mikel said:

I go to see a band and be entertained and the singer front person is a huge part of that...I am a bassist and a drummer but I never go to check out said musicians, I go to see the band

^^ !!

That is it in a nutshell. That's what audiences want from their bands. And it's the bass players part to make that happen as part of the collective whole. I have my answer  

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Last night we were a lead vocalist down at short notice. East London pub audience for most of whom 50s and 60s is not their favourite (or even second or third choice) genre. Potential to be a disaster.

The band rose to the challenge and were clearly all determined to give the audience a great night out. Including the bass player who got his Smooth-hound out so he could party with the rest of the band and donned a pair of shades to look like something from the ancient world; the guitarist playing the Johnny B Goode solo behind his head; the lead vocals having amazing energy and interacting with the audience.

Ended up as one of our best nights with that band, ever!  Almost the whole audience (80+) up and dancing by the end of the night. Baying for encores. Publican insisted on paying the full amount although I'd told him we'd take less 'cos we were doing a slightly shorter set (15 mins less than the usual 2 hours) given we were down to one lead vocals and some of our prepared material just wasn't going to work. And yes folk came up at the end and wanted to thank us for a great evening.

We left on a high.

On 05/10/2018 at 09:53, discreet said:

Pub punters don't notice anything. They're dimly aware that a band is playing and depending on how drunk they are, they'll either talk loudly to each other or dance about wildly, spilling beer and bumping into things. As far as bass goes, what you do is largely irrelevant. Punters don't notice what gear you're using, or even care. A few might be aware of your guitar being somehow bigger than usual, but in general they can't tell the difference between a bass and a banjo at three paces. And they certainly don't understand which register you're playing in or where that powerful low sound is coming from. They don't differentiate between instruments - to them it's all one sound and that's how it should be.

So I'm happy to say it doesn't have to be anything like the above! A really good band will be noticed and we, as bass players, have a big part to play in that.

I've realised that, for me, there's nothing like a great night with my band playing to an audience that's really enjoying themselves. It's when I feel most alive.

[Woodinblack]

9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Ended up as one of our best nights with that band, ever!  Almost the whole audience (80+) up and dancing by the end of the night. Baying for encores. Publican insisted on paying the full amount although I'd told him we'd take less 'cos we were doing a slightly shorter set (15 mins less than the usual 2 hours) given we were down to one lead vocals and some of our prepared material just wasn't going to work. And yes folk came up at the end and wanted to thank us for a great evening.

So went home and sacked the singer then?

 

[dmccombe7]

The right band with the right audience will always be a success and a resulting great night. If the band are competent and showing enthusiasm to enjoy the party i've always found the audience will come alive to be part of that fun. 

At the end of the day people just want to go out and have fun.

Dave

[chris_b]

Our band went into a junior school and played for the kids. They were invited to come up and talk to us at the end. I was the only one who was totally ignored. It didn't surprise me.

Sir Isaac Newton was singer or a lead guitarist. He's the guy everyone remembers, he got all the glory, but Robert Hooke was the guy who discovered and invented so much stuff and many of the experiments and equipment that proved the Science. Newton was the poster boy but it was Hooke who made the Royal Society work. Robert Hooke (not a Sir) was definitely a bass player. (Google is your friend!)

We are the unsung heroes, the guys running in the power stations, keeping the lights on, working in labs inventing a cure for the nastiest diseases, maintaining the buses, trains, planes computers and telephone systems.

Do we need a pat on the back or are we satisfied just knowing that everything turns to stinky poo without us? We are the calm, witty and intelligent members of the band. We know we tie the band members together, ensuring they sound good. We know that we are the heart-beat and soul of the band. We know that and the band knows that. It's nice to get recognition from an audience but we can be satisfied by the simple fact that we know just how important we are.

[krispn]

😢 beautiful. 

[peteb]

24 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Our band went into a junior school and played for the kids. They were invited to come up and talk to us at the end. I was the only one who was totally ignored. It didn't surprise me.

Sir Isaac Newton was singer or a lead guitarist. He's the guy everyone remembers, he got all the glory, but Robert Hooke was the guy who discovered and invented so much stuff and many of the experiments and equipment that proved the Science. Newton was the poster boy but it was Hooke who made the Royal Society work. Robert Hooke (not a Sir) was definitely a bass player. (Google is your friend!)

We are the unsung heroes, the guys running in the power stations, keeping the lights on, working in labs inventing a cure for the nastiest diseases, maintaining the buses, trains, planes computers and telephone systems.

Do we need a pat on the back or are we satisfied just knowing that everything turns to stinky poo without us? We are the calm, witty and intelligent members of the band. We know we tie the band members together, ensuring they sound good. We know that we are the heart-beat and soul of the band. We know that and the band knows that. It's nice to get recognition from an audience but we can be satisfied by the simple fact that we know just how important we are.

But is that because it is easy for the bass player, not generally being a soloist (unless you are Billy Sheehan), to be relegated to the shadows at the back of the stage? It is more difficult for a lead guitarist to hide at the back, even in the unlikely event that they wanted to.

But it doesn’t necessarily have to be this way – compare John McVie and (to take an extreme example) Nikki Sixx??

I have always got recognition from the audience. At your school event, kids would have been coming to me – not because I’m a superior player by any means, but because I am more of a performer. A few of us went to see the Devil’s Slingshot a few years ago (rock fusion trio featuring Tony Macalpine, Virgil Donati and the aforementioned Billy Sheehan). This was the first time that my wife had seen Sheehan live and she was laughing as she said she could see where I had stolen my act from – not the bass playing (unfortunately) but the stage moves…!   

[Al Krow]

15 minutes ago, peteb said:

But is that because it is easy for the bass player, not generally being a soloist (unless you are Billy Sheehan), to be relegated to the shadows at the back of the stage? It is more difficult for a lead guitarist to hide at the back, even in the unlikely event that they wanted to.

But it doesn’t necessarily have to be this way – compare John McVie and (to take an extreme example) Nikki Sixx??

I have always got recognition from the audience. At your school event, kids would have been coming to me – not because I’m a superior player by any means, but because I am more of a performer. A few of us went to see the Devil’s Slingshot a few years ago (rock fusion trio featuring Tony Macalpine, Virgil Donati and the aforementioned Billy Sheehan). This was the first time that my wife had seen Sheehan live and she was laughing as she said she could see where I had stolen my act from – not the bass playing (unfortunately) but the stage moves…!   

+1 ^^ 100%

The guitarist in our more modern covers bands is a complete non-showman, to the extent that the vocalist who plays acoustic guitar to a basic level (and is nowhere near as good as the lead guitarist) got asked by one of the audience if he (and not the lead guitarist!) would be able to give lessons to their kid! 😂

The singers in that band have commented what a difference it's made to the vibe when I've come out from behind and supported them from the front, because they're not getting that from the guitarist.

And a lot of our sets have some great bass-heavy numbers. When we're playing any Chilli Peppers material, for example, you can see the punters gaze wandering to the bass as well as the vocals. 

There is no reason a bassist can't have 'presence' in a band which can, if done well, add to the whole.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Al Krow

[bassfan]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

+1 ^^ 100%

The guitarist in our more modern covers bands is a complete non-showman, to the extent that the vocalist who plays acoustic guitar to a basic level (and is nowhere near as good as the lead guitarist) got asked by one of the audience if he (and not the lead guitarist!) would be able to give lessons to their kid! 😂

The singers in that band have commented what a difference it's made to the vibe when I've come out from behind and supported them from the front, because they're not getting that from the guitarist.

And a lot of our sets have some great bass-heavy numbers. When we're playing any Chilli Peppers material, for example, you can see the punters gaze wandering to the bass as well as the vocals. 

There is no reason a bassist can't have 'presence' in a band which can, if done well, add to the whole.

I’m no shrinking violet.. I was out at the front dancing with the singer and keys player to Get Lucky last night. If there’s enough room I’m always bouncing around at the back. If you’re in the groove you have to move🕺🏻

[dmccombe7]

26 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

. When we're playing any Chilli Peppers material, for example, you can see the punters gaze wandering to the bass as well as the vocals. 

 

They're only watching to see if you make an a**e of the bassline i bet. 

But then again is that not why the audience watch the guitar solo ?

Dave

[Al Krow]

39 minutes ago, bassfan said:

I’m no shrinking violet.. I was out at the front dancing with the singer and keys player to Get Lucky last night. If there’s enough room I’m always bouncing around at the back. If you’re in the groove you have to move🕺🏻

So did you get lucky then? 😀

[bassfan]

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So did you get lucky then? 😀

We did in terms of more gigs........ 😂

[Bridgehouse]

32 minutes ago, bassfan said:

We did in terms of more gigs........ 😂

Giggity gigs?

[Woodinblack]

In our group the singer / sax is definitely the showman, he interacts with the audience, dances round, goes into the audience when saxing to interact. And he gets the most attention as he should, he loves it and he does it well. He is an OK singer, but that is all he needs to be - I would rather the showman who can sing than a fantastic singer that can't show.

So in our group, me and him are at the front as I also do vocals (although I don't move round too much), the guitarist doesn't generally look up.

I often get people talking to me after the show, most people know I play the bass

[Count Bassy]

On 05/10/2018 at 09:16, Al Krow said:

😂

But they will very likely notice if:

i) he or she is at the right volume and balanced with the rest of the band [Sound check, making sure the bass cuts through in the mids]

ii) the bass tone is harsh / crap / boomy [EQ settings right]

iii) he or she plays tight with the drums, with groove & 'feel'? [Just get a Squier bass and crack on!]

iv) the bass lines are interesting ? [IMO there are two parts to this. The first is the actual notes and style you play; the second part is where tonal variety of effects can play their part (from tremolo, octave, through dirt to filter and synth)]

v) there is a lot of dead air time between numbers or does the set flow? [Actually a decent multi-fx pedal where each song can be set up as a patch and you can just sequentially scroll through your 30-song, 2 hour set can make a difference here. Massive difference between our main guitarist who only uses dedicated pedals ('cos they're 'better') but can easily spend a full minute between songs dancing over his pedal board, and our dep who has a full-fat Helix and just "flows". Perhaps less of an issue at the dog n duck but certainly a BIG point if you're playing a party or function where folk are up and dancing]

vi) there's a really good cab (or sound system more generally if you're going FRFR)

vii) that I'm using a Future Impact for Synth sounds rather than a cheap (and super value) Zoom MS-60B, or a really good envelope filter or dirt pedal - what I'd describe as the "in your face" effects.

viii) whilst it's not important to the sound they'll probably also notice what colour the bass is! [White if you want to get noticed, right? 😂]

Do you agree with the above? Will it vary much between originals and covers bands, or higher-end functions as opposed to pub gigs? Do we get our focus wrong on what's really important to our audiences as bass players?

 

I think you overestimate the typical audience.

[jazzmanb]

Unless its a muso type gig they won't expect anything from you and at the end they may not know they've had anything but if you do a good job they will have a good time ,providing the singer isn't a Richard