eude Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 14 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: I keep coming back to look at this picture! This is going to be amazing, thank you @Andyjr1515 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marcoelwray Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Hi guys, I'm following this topic as a mute follower, but maybe I missed something but why you didn't use the other side of the Katalox? Because of the "eyes"? I was really enjoying the dark/light side of it Keep up @Andyjr1515 ! Want to see it done Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Marcoelwray said: Hi guys, I'm following this topic as a mute follower, but maybe I missed something but why you didn't use the other side of the Katalox? Because of the "eyes"? I was really enjoying the dark/light side of it Keep up @Andyjr1515 ! Want to see it done Cheers I'll let @Andyjr1515 answer that one, I love dark wood though, which I let Andy know about, so perhaps that drove the decision? Katalox is a very very dark wood once finished though, so even though it looked like there was some stark contrast on one side, it's likely it would've died back when finished anyway. Here's another lovely example of a Katalox topped bass for reference >> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, Marcoelwray said: Hi guys, I'm following this topic as a mute follower, but maybe I missed something but why you didn't use the other side of the Katalox? Because of the "eyes"? I was really enjoying the dark/light side of it Keep up @Andyjr1515 ! Want to see it done Cheers Because the eyes on the 'right' side were less diffuse, and were slightly further away from the centre, they actually would have been cut out entirely at the waist one way round, or been at the very edges of the body the other way round and because the length of the blank wasn't much longer than the bass itself, I couldn't just move it up a bit to get them into the area where the body widens. It's why I always use a paper template to check - too many times I've ended up having to cut out the nice bits! This way round - which is actually a mix of the two sides, you have one eye in there from the 'right' side, but the second eye spreads out so more of it ends up in the visible area. If that makes any sense at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, eude said: I'll let @Andyjr1515 answer that one, I love dark wood though, which I let Andy know about, so perhaps that drove the decision? Katalox is a very very dark wood once finished though, so even though it looked like there was some stark contrast on one side, it's likely it would've died back when finished anyway. Here's another lovely example of a Katalox topped bass for reference >> Yes - the whole thing will darken considerably with the finish. Having said that, it's definitely going to be in the reddish spectrum rather than the brownish. It's quite like a bubinga in many ways. Main thing is that it'll look fabulous! (providing I don't pink torpedo it up, of course ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Where does that wood come from? I’m not sure it grows around Moffat?! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 hours ago, LukeFRC said: Where does that wood come from? I’m not sure it grows around Moffat?! Central America - South Mexico through to the north of S America. So yes - quite close to Moffat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 9 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: Central America - South Mexico through to the north of S America. So yes - quite close to Moffat... I wonder why all the darker. sexier woods come from warmer and in some cases more humid climates, most UK species are lighter in colour... Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardH Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Let's just say we're all "pale and interesting" in the UK.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marcoelwray Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, eude said: I wonder why all the darker. sexier woods come from warmer and in some cases more humid climates, most UK species are lighter in colour... Eude To my knowledge, you have some amazing species of walnut.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Marcoelwray said: To my knowledge, you have some amazing species of walnut.... There is some pretty cool Walnut out there from the UK, but I mean REALLY dark like Ebony, Wenge, Katalox etcs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marcoelwray Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, eude said: There is some pretty cool Walnut out there from the UK, but I mean REALLY dark like Ebony, Wenge, Katalox etcs. I guess you have to go South to find these darker species... I don't know why, tho. I'm sure there's a logical explanation for this. Beyond the equator, you'll find exotic dark, red, purple woods... North, in our countries, there's more pine trees... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, Marcoelwray said: I guess you have to go South to find these darker species... I don't know why, tho. I'm sure there's a logical explanation for this. Beyond the equator, you'll find exotic dark, red, purple woods... North, in our countries, there's more pine trees... You don't see many Pine instruments do you, which is a bit odd as proper old growth pine is incredibly dense and strong, I'm sure it would give any hard ash or maple a run for its money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, eude said: You don't see many Pine instruments do you, which is a bit odd as proper old growth pine is incredibly dense and strong, I'm sure it would give any hard ash or maple a run for its money... Fender used to make their bodies out of southern yellow pine but stopped using it I think in the early 60's 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Jimothey said: Fender used to make their bodies out of southern yellow pine but stopped using it I think in the early 60's I did not know that. I wonder what might have prompted the change?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, eude said: I did not know that. I wonder what might have prompted the change?... I think it was that other Luthiers started using hardwoods so pine ended up being seen as an inferior quality product Edited October 11, 2018 by Jimothey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marcoelwray Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I think, really not sure about that, that pine family have a big issue on long term use; it moves a lot and make easily crackles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Marcoelwray said: I think, really not sure about that, that pine family have a big issue on long term use; it moves a lot and make easily crackles... It really depends on the species of pine, White Pine I agree would move and crack but the likes of Pitch Pine has the same characteristics as Oak or Yew, also Southern Yellow Pine is higher on the janka scale than Mahogany and Caribbean Heart Pine is higher than Black Walnut and Teak so unfortunately you can't really generalise when it comes to Pine 😀 Edited October 11, 2018 by Jimothey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marcoelwray Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I think it's time to re-think woods, tones, and every opportunity is good to try.... Is it difficult to find a piece of dried Southern Yellow Pine? I received a book on woods for my birthday, the amount of protected species is beyond all I was thinking... Wengé, Teak, Ipé, Bubinga, I mean, I'm not the planet saver kind of guy, but it becomed really disturbing (the scale we decime that trees) Maybe it's time to go back on more regular woods? I'm sure with a good contruction, a Yellow Pine / Oak / Maple has to sound good and does not kill the forest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Just now, Marcoelwray said: I think it's time to re-think woods, tones, and every opportunity is good to try.... Is it difficult to find a piece of dried Southern Yellow Pine? I received a book on woods for my birthday, the amount of protected species is beyond all I was thinking... Wengé, Teak, Ipé, Bubinga, I mean, I'm not the planet saver kind of guy, but it becomed really disturbing (the scale we decime that trees) Maybe it's time to go back on more regular woods? I'm sure with a good contruction, a Yellow Pine / Oak / Maple has to sound good and does not kill the forest... I remember talking to a luthier a while back who was saying that had Leo Fender been British we'd all be building guitars out of pine, oak, ash, sycamore etc, all our domestic species. The timbers Leo Fender used were local to him and relatively inexpensive, at least in the first instance... You're right though, we need to rethink. It's pretty clear that it's mainly the density and hardness of a wood that "probably " effect the tone, so why can't we use other less popular and abundant woods to do the same stuff if they line up spec wise with the sought after and nearly extinct ones? Eude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 OK - my plan in this post is to scare the willies out of @eude - and then get him to fall off his chair So - this is the chambering plan. 10mm removal between the neck pocket and the pickup chamber and 20mm everywhere else I can. Here are the areas: ...and bear in mind, the last instrument I built was only 22mm to start with... OK. I think we probably have @eude 's attention And so out comes the press drill and so far we have this: So I suspect this above will have scared the c**p out of @eude And so now is time to get @eude to fall off his chair. Original stripped down body weight: 5lbs 3oz This above, plus the cut katalox top: 5lbs 2oz Yes - katalox is heavy. But there's a but... Original bridge: 8oz Warwick bridge: 15oz So total weight (including bridge) in spite of all this wood removed is, at the moment, 6oz HEAVIER Listen...did I hear a thump? Sure I did. Told you 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Back up from the floor now, thankfully I have my own office, or that would've been weird... WOW, a shame there's no significant saving after all that work, but man alive, how heavy would this have been without it!? I'm amazed the Warwick bridge adds that much, it's the alloy one, they do a freakin' brass equivalent! I guess that's why Warwick basses are always so heavy. Sterling effort though @Andyjr1515, was it nerve wracking? That's exactly the type of tool set up that lead to that MASSIVE hole of a control cavity Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 How much does the saddles part of the bridge weigh? Couldn't this be replaced by something less weighty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, TheGreek said: How much does the saddles part of the bridge weigh? Couldn't this be replaced by something less weighty? I guess you could potentially go through the body with ferrules to hold the strings from behind? I don't think that would save a massive amount of weight however, and although slimming the bass down a bit would be a "nice to have" it certainly wasn't on the original plan. I also really like the aesthetic of the Warwick 2 piece bridge, so I'll just get a wider strap and get on with it In my experience, heavier basses have a sound that appeals to me more than others YMMV Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, eude said: Sterling effort though @Andyjr1515, was it nerve wracking? That's exactly the type of tool set up that lead to that MASSIVE hole of a control cavity Eude Been there, done that.... Actually, you can get up off the floor. Remember that there are three rectangles to cut out of the top - the pickup, the bridge base plate, the stop tail - and there are all the curves to carve. Because the top wood is SO heavy, then you get a disproportionate reduction of weight for each of these. Just how much lighter it's going to be, I don't know...but it will be lighter. Oh - and as you probably can see from the outline drawing of the chambers, the MASSIVE control cavity is actually going to get bigger so that will take a few more ounces out **Thump** ? Oh it's OK, folks - @eude 's just fallen on the floor again. Anyway - don't worry - it may be big but it's going to be beautiful. And with magnets I will actually be gluing the top fairly late in the build so I can keep checking weight as I go along. Just tidying up the present chambers has taken out another 3oz, so at the moment we are only 3oz heavier: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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