Since when did Sandbergs jump in price?!

[Cuzzie]

@Muzz Sandberg has been going for 32years

Is that long enough to say the bass may have had some mojo imparted?

[Muzz]

For fake wear on fake fenders? Yeah, why not? 😀

[LukeFRC]

9 minutes ago, Muzz said:

For fake wear on fake fenders? Yeah, why not? 😀

I’m actually miming, the keys player is triggering the bass loops, so who cares?

 

 

Mind you I Still spent £6k on the perfect gear though (not including my pedalboard and IEM.) Helps me feel confident while playing.

Edited September 19, 2018 by LukeFRC
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[ead]

It is, and I think we all agree it's very Marmite.  Whilst I personally wouldn't buy one I have absolutely no issue with them offering that finish.

Don't Sandberg make the best Fenders nowadays?.....I'll get my coat before all the Fender zealots arrive.

[Cuzzie]

@Muzz well they had to learn from Japan how to make a decent bass with the JV’s, maybe they should learn from Ze Germans too

[Cuzzie]

@ead Fender make a poor mans Sandberg 

(the engine is running, quick get in!)

[ead]

Picking up my new jazz on Sunday...

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Muzz said:

At the end of the day it's simulated damage, and you could do that to a Status or a Steinberger; my point being it would seem odd on a non-vintage type of bass (tho ironically both makers have basses out there which are decades old), and so to me it seems odd to simulate decades of wear on a make/model of bass that couldn't possibly be that old...

Mojo (aka real, actual wear) doesn't seem to be an issue with secondhand EBMMs, not so much with Rickys (possibly because they conceivably have a rep for being a little more, erm, fragile*), so yeah, it must be a manufacturers decision.

I still smile at secondhand ads for reliced instruments that describe them as in 'Good cosmetic condition', tho... 😁

 

* Don't write in, Ricky owners...I'm thinking truss rods, binding and tail lift - they might be a real issues, they might just be rumours and falsehoods, either way, it's out there...

I know a luthier who was once asked to repair an aged bass....

 

To remove a ding. Customer wanted only the official dings and not a real one.

 

I make no further comment!  

[martthebass]

3 hours ago, Muzz said:

At the end of the day it's simulated damage, and you could do that to a Status or a Steinberger; my point being it would seem odd on a non-vintage type of bass (tho ironically both makers have basses out there which are decades old), and so to me it seems odd to simulate decades of wear on a make/model of bass that couldn't possibly be that old...

Mojo (aka real, actual wear) doesn't seem to be an issue with secondhand EBMMs, not so much with Rickys (possibly because they conceivably have a rep for being a little more, erm, fragile*), so yeah, it must be a manufacturers decision.

I still smile at secondhand ads for reliced instruments that describe them as in 'Good cosmetic condition', tho... 😁

 

* Don't write in, Ricky owners...I'm thinking truss rods, binding and tail lift - they might be a real issues, they might just be rumours and falsehoods, either way, it's out there...

IMHO the whole relic thing is very subjective, for instance I don't mind the look of an old P or J bass but I think a worn Rick looks 'stinky poo'.  I think Ricks do seem to come off as being more fragile, I've had no problem with mine, but the relatively thin body and design doesn't seem as robust as a 10lb Ray or P bass.  On a separate note, I'm wondering if some of these lightweight, sub 3Kg basses will stand up to the rigors of giggage? 

[Cuzzie]

@martthebass I wouldn’t worry about Cedar too much they have built garden fences, sheds, garage doors and ships out of it for years.

Pretty sure it can stand grubby hands and a spilt drink

[martthebass]

Didn’t read enough to note they were cedar. Had an overwater Perception in cedar, nice enough, picked dings up easily but no worse than basswood.  

[Al Krow]

I'm with @Muzz 100% on this. 

Completely different to being in a covers band - who are playing great material by other bands, not pretending to be them and not passing themselves off as something they're not. 

A fake is a fake. If you want an old bass, why not just get one? Particularly at the prices these are going for. 

[Cuzzie]

Does that mean that tribute bands are fake?

How about a covers band playing covers from a particular era dressing in a similar way to that era,  but using new bases not from that era, or modern copies of bases from that era?

Are they all fake?

Happy to live and let live as it’s just a finish as an option, but still astounds me how much ire there is against anything Fender, even Fender Custom Shop aged bases don’t get the same voices against. Ergonomically shapes are going to be roughly similar to the original, and the shape is not patented, it’s what works whoever invented it, Leo or otherwise.

But hey, the thread is in the cost of a new bass done with care and attention. The more man hours spent on it, the more expensive it is, it’s that simple compared to a factory run relatively soulless build

[Al Krow]

For sure live and let live. It's the coolest philosophy. No argument there. And I ain't debating the economics either; more man hours = more cost. Agreed

Tribute bands are not passing themselves as the Rolling Stones are they? They are no more going to be regarded as the "real thing" than an impression artist is. Everyone can see it's a different person, a different band can't they?

Relic'd basses are in a different category; they're setting out to pass themselves off as something they're not; you'll never see "artificially aged to look old" on them will you?

Just the way I see things; everyone's free to spend their hard earned cash how they want. But they just shouldn't expect respect for something that's not authentic.

If you want an old bass, buy one. There's plenty out there. Simples.

 

[Cuzzie]

So the band set up to look, act and play like an old band are not fake, because as they clearly state, they are not the actual members

http://www.thestones.co.uk/

But a bass made to look like an old Bass that has had some wear, had hours of musical vibration treatment to try to simulate many hours of play, stuffed full of modern technology and well made, without passing itself off as being 30 years old is a fake and in no way being the same bass is a fake......

Yep, the Logic is undeniable

[Al Krow]

Hah! That band does look pretty "faked" I agree and I have to salute them for the lengths they have gone to. But no one in their right mind is going to think they're the real thing are they? And no one is going to pay the same to see them as they are the real thing. It's just an act.

But I'm glad that you're equating a relic'd bass with a tribute band. That kinda gets us 50% of the way there; and it's not a bad analogy.

Relic'd basses, for me, are more akin to a fake Rolex (and seem to be costing as much as a real Rolex too, due to all the man hours put in 😂).

As I said, if you want an old bass, buy one. There's plenty out there. Simples.

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Al Krow

[Muzz]

They're both fake. As fake as a fake Rolex, and about as impressive.

[Cuzzie]

@Muzz I agree with you both that band and the fake Rolex are fake

@Al KrowNever equated a tribute band to a relic’d bass, I asked an opinion on what is fake and what is not along a musical topic, being a musical site, lines are obviously blurred.

No one will pay the same you are right, just as an ‘original’ bass will fetch a different price, BUT you can take a whole host of companies and line up their equivalent models to a Fender counterpart and the prices will be similar across the board, aside from Fender Mastebuilt, you are arguably getting at least as good if not better quality and consistency. Yammy Attitude LTDIII - a very fine bass, Yammy Nathan East, BB range.

Olinto P bass (Carbonetti guitars will no doubt get a hammering for his relic’ing and Mas Hino for being a crap luthier copying a Fender design) ESP etc.

Then second hand you get even better value.

But you are right, you want an old bass, buy one, if you want a bass with a few dings, so a few dings more don’t matter when you want to sell and someone tries to hammer £500 off your fair list price for a crack in the paint, nowt wrong with that

[FacStudio]

@Muzz so you don’t like relics.  I think you’ll find there’s a huge market for them and lots of people love them.  They like the fact they don’t worry if they ding it.  Plus it’s just a finish.  Yes, a finish!  It’s not an attempt to fool anyone there old or vintage.  It’s an aesthetic! 

I don’t like black basses, but I don’t whinge about it at every opportunity.  

I know several player (relic haters too) who have sold basses that are less than 6-months old because they had a small ding, an imperfection.  Crying at their beautiful things being scratched.  It’s sad and hilarious. 

Bring on the relics I say, we play hard and don’t give a sh*t. 

[Wilco]

1 hour ago, FacStudio said:

@Muzz so you don’t like relics.  I think you’ll find there’s a huge market for them and lots of people love them.  They like the fact they don’t worry if they ding it.  Plus it’s just a finish.  Yes, a finish!  It’s not an attempt to fool anyone there old or vintage.  It’s an aesthetic! 

I don’t like black basses, but I don’t whinge about it at every opportunity.  

I know several player (relic haters too) who have sold basses that are less than 6-months old because they had a small ding, an imperfection.  Crying at their beautiful things being scratched.  It’s sad and hilarious. 

Bring on the relics I say, we play hard and don’t give a sh*t. 

Erm, so why not just by a used whatever model, with some dings & bashes on already, at a much lower price than a new standard version of same model, rather than the inflated price of a new relic?

Artificial relicing of a new bass makes no sense for a purchaser from a fiscal perspective. Very rarely works aesthetically either - most of the time it’s night & day difference between real aging & artificial relicing, no matter what the brand.

[Cuzzie]

@Wilco a brand new bass relic’d or not makes no sense fiscally, they all drop in price.

Masterpiece for example is not just about the relic 

[Wilco]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

@Wilco a brand new bass relic’d or not makes no sense fiscally, they all drop in price.

Masterpiece for example is not just about the relic 

Agreed, but you missed my point. A used bass with some dings & dents etc has already depreciated by its max amount, hence fiscally makes more sense then a new relic or even a new standard obviously. Hence from a monetary perspective a bit of a nonsense to pay someone for some ‘damage’.

And you’re right, it’s not just about the relic. It’s about marketing, & increasing the gross margin for those (insert your preferred word here) enough to pay for it....!

[Cuzzie]

@Wilco i completely get you buddy, but I think where I am coming from is that in general if a bass depreciates 50% then if it’s £2k new it will go for half as will the £1.5k new, which is pretty much reflected in the second hand market, except of course the pristine one with dings may go for less, but the dinged one with more dings probably won’t, if you get my drift, it will hit its shelf.

I think we are sort of talking the same, when I mentioned not just the relic I meant other things like vibration, heat treatment etc. If you want that sort of thing, marketing was deliberately kept aside 

[krispn]

Like most ‘debates’ on Internet forums it’s a case of If you like it buy it if you don’t don’t. 

We can rationalise opinion or choice but ultimately the chat was about cost. We’ve had the Warwick price hike chat, the EBMM price chat, the new Fender Pro price chat. Sandberg are pretty market appropriate in their ‘regular’ range price before heat and vibration treatment, relic’ing etc. They make as strong and reliable a product as EBMM or other non fender brands.

Have the detractors played one? Compared one to their fav brand? Had some actual time playing one of just decided they don’t like it? 

The internet eh! Proper ball ache!

[Opticaleye]

I like relics if they're good basses and they often are (especially Sandbergs). It's not purely a cosmetic choice, they feel different IMO.

High gloss Sandbergs are not normally my preference due to the feel but I bought a black one because it played and sounded so good. I too have never really liked black basses but I now own 2 and have owned 5 in total since I started playing. 

I don't really care whether an instrument has an existential right to exist, if I like it nothing else matters 😀