Does anyone actually LIKE jazz?

[TheRev]

18 minutes ago, dazza14 said:

I'm hoping to see them at the Albert Hall, brilliant group.

In my old band the guitarist said early on that he would play anything but jazz, the reason? "jazz is just wrong". Horses for courses I guess.

He probably fears jazz...

 

[TheRev]

2 hours ago, bazzbass said:

I went to a jazz recital and was amused at the structured soloing. each musician stepped forward,played their solo,then the audience politely golf clapped,they stepped back,played together a bit then the next soloist stepped up. SO POLITE

I've had similar experiences and this sort of attitude is why jazz is perceived as elitist and exclusive. 

I love listening to Bill Evans at the Village Vanguard - there's loads of background chatter, there aren't any pretentious tw@ts going 'shush!' at anyone who dares communicate above a whisper and when the band does something interesting, people shut up and listen. That's how a jazz gig should be.

[mikel]

2 hours ago, bazzbass said:

I went to a jazz recital and was amused at the structured soloing. each musician stepped forward,played their solo,then the audience politely golf clapped,they stepped back,played together a bit then the next soloist stepped up. SO POLITE

I like quite a lot of Jazz, but live it does my head in. I love a good tasteful solo that interprets the theme, but clapping a player after a solo, while the song is still going on, just riles me. Its a song, a piece of music, If the whole piece goes well and you enjoyed it show appreciation at the end, like you would with any other performance. Its a stupid and distracting ritual.

[visog]

I'm in... Miles and all of his 'children's' work: Joe Zawinul - WR, Herbie - HH, John McLauglin - MO and Chick with RTF. Terrific, super-exciting music.

Still trying to learn the essence of the language - hugely sophisticated rhythmically and harmonically but satisfying...

[mikel]

1 minute ago, visog said:

I'm in... Miles and all of his 'children's' work: Joe Zawinul - WR, Herbie - HH, John McLauglin - MO and Chick with RTF. Terrific, super-exciting music.

Still trying to learn the essence of the language - hugely sophisticated rhythmically and harmonically but satisfying...

That could be what puts a lot of people off Jazz, that some players and audience members consider it to be "Sophisticated" ergo more "Relevant" and grown up than other musical forms. Its not, its just music, even though I like it and I am obviously sophisticated, like.

[visog]

7 minutes ago, mikel said:

That could be what puts a lot of people off Jazz, that some players and audience members consider it to be "Sophisticated" ergo more "Relevant" and grown up than other musical forms. Its not, its just music, even though I like it and I am obviously sophisticated, like.

Agreed, that it probably does put people off especially if people playing/who like it cop an attitude. Fact is, the ear you need, rhythmic sensitivity, ability to translate that to your instrument in real-time is sophisticated. What I wouldn't do is exacerbate it with the sort of 'grand-standing' that fusion became.. I don't think playing fast is sophisticated for example but it is a by-product of the study and practice Jazz requires - looking at you Hadrien.

Edited September 12, 2018 by visog

[Coilte]

I have been a jazz fan since my mid teens (now 63). I suppose I was "lucky"...(YMMV 😉)...   enough to be exposed to it early in life by an older friend who had lots of jazz LP's. When I could afford to buy my own albums, I started exploring new names. Still doing so to this day. 

[HengistPod]

I have a cousin who makes a very tidy living in London singing French jazz and playing accordion. Residencies in brasseries , gigs on the Orient Express and the like, playing with top-notch po-faced jazz musicians in dinner suits.

She absolutely refuses to acknowledge me, with my 38 years of playing bass in rock cover bands, as any level of musician whatsoever.

Which is probably fair enough, to be honest.

[fretmeister]

Yes.

but I am picky. Piano jazz and big band are my favourite. 

[Coilte]

52 minutes ago, HengistPod said:

I have a cousin who makes a very tidy living in London singing French jazz and playing accordion. Residencies in brasseries , gigs on the Orient Express and the like, playing with top-notch po-faced jazz musicians in dinner suits.

She absolutely refuses to acknowledge me, with my 38 years of playing bass in rock cover bands, as any level of musician whatsoever.

Which is probably fair enough, to be honest.

I don't think that's fair at all. It is attitudes like your cousin's, that puts people off jazz, claiming it to be elitist. Granted, it takes a high degree of musicianship to perform jazz music, but that does not...(or SHOULD not)...mean looking down your nose at fellow musicians. 

[aguacollas]

I love jazz. I keep discovering great melodies and performances and solos and textures and great tight bands playing together. Jazz is inmense. 

[Conan]

5 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

 a vague hint of jazz for people who don't really like music but can't cope with silence.

That's brilliant! Very perceptive 

[Sibob]

I like some music, I don't like other music. Jazz, same as everything else, falls into both categories depending on the piece of in question.
That said, there's plenty to be gained from listening to music you don't 'like', you'll always learn something, even if it's what NOT to do.

Si

[toneknob]

Much to my delight, Mrs Knob has started entertaining the idea of having Jazz FM on in the kitchen. It gets a bit dinner jazz for me at dinner time (funny that) but I've discovered some corkers recently usually by dashing for my phone and firing up Shazam.

A repeat listen recently has been Chip Wickham's two albums, both on spotify, La Sombra and Shamal Wind. 

 

 

 

 

 

[PawelG]

I like jazz that immediately creates atmosphere. Not the crazy-random-notes one where the musicians try to force you to turn it off or walk out of the gig - the one without any soul or groove.

But then there's stuff like this...

 

[spongebob]

It's a massive yes from me.

However, just as rock had a 'golden period', for me, jazz did the same. Late 50's to mid-70's.

I loved it when it was pushing the boundaries - Coltrane, Miles, Mingus, Albert Ayler.....other day I was jamming with Cannonball Adderley's 'The Black Messiah'.

There is so much amazing jazz, but I think perception tends to put a lot of people off....the polite, Pizza Hut stuff.

That amazing period of innovation, that's where I like to be. I have enjoyed Marcus Miller's recent records, and Victor Wooten....Stanley Clarke's new album is pretty cool.

But I personally don't think they're in the same league as say, 'A Love Supreme'. Same as most, if not all modern rock records don't come close to 'Who's Next'.

I'll leave you with this - 

 

 

[Bilbo]

I like good Jazz but I don't like bad Jazz. The best thing is, I get to choose. 

[FDC484950]

As others have said, jazz is a broad set of styles. It may also be argued that its heyday was up until the mid-late 70’s - whilst there has been a lot of great jazz music since, it’s not really in the consciousness of many musicians.

Fundamentally, jazz is improvised music - this can mean playing a head (melody), taking solos and the head again to finish, or the whole thing is made up on the spot with little or no reference points. This is both very liberating and potentially terrifying; despite what some may think, good improvisers are doing anything but playing randomly. However, with the tools of reharmonisation and taking the music “outside” (so basically playing a line that belongs to a different harmonic context over the current chord progression), it can get quite complex and require a bit of understanding and appreciation, and especially listening. No wonder that the default response is either indifference or active dislike. Being primarily instrumental is a turn-off for many (but not an issue in film, TV or computer games). The average attention span for listening to or watching anything has waned significantly too, making long improvisational music even less likely to be tolerated.

Certainly in mainstream (and even specialist) media, jazz doesn’t really exist and hasn’t done so for decades, so if musicians have to seek it out, get a grasp of what is going on and then embark on a lifetime’s study to be able to play it well, no wonder there’s little appetite for it amongst the general public. It is and always has been a cottage industry in music (with a few successes sales-wise).

One of the issues with the way jazz and related music is played is the level of taste and restraint of the musicians. As others here have said, just because you can, it doesn’t mean you should! This applies even to the “greats” - Miles Davis and John Coltrane were as guilty as anyone else in this regard. It should not, however, be navel-gazing, apologetic, “safe” or that polite, either! The point of music is to communicate - it is an art form after all. Self-indulgence is a fine line between expression and dull, dull, dull.

I’m not convinced that going to music school to learn jazz produces great musicians - there is the danger that you end up with a photocopy of a photocopy  at some point the paper will be blank. If I do listen to modern jazz, I often fail to hear much that is novel, ear-grabbing or “the sound of surprise”. But without opportunities to hear it live, how would anyone learn it?

An interesting question to ask is - would I still listen to jazz if I didn’t play an instrument? If so, how would it sound? Although I’ve listened to a fair amount over the years, I’m really not sure I would have listened to it (or liked much of it) if I didn’t play bass...

 

[Leonard Smalls]

2 hours ago, FDC484950 said:

jazz is a broad set of styles.

Aye! 

 

 

[knirirr]

2 hours ago, FDC484950 said:

An interesting question to ask is - would I still listen to jazz if I didn’t play an instrument? If so, how would it sound? Although I’ve listened to a fair amount over the years, I’m really not sure I would have listened to it (or liked much of it) if I didn’t play bass...

 

I listened to it a little before taking up the bass or guitar.

I recall getting the initial impression that various albums I heard were actually contemporary rather than from 20-30 years earlier as the music sounded somehow "modern" in comparison to the sort thing I'd been hearing until then (rock and roll, pop etc. of a similar period to the jazz).

[MGB]

15 hours ago, PawelG said:

I like jazz that immediately creates atmosphere. Not the crazy-random-notes one where the musicians try to force you to turn it off or walk out of the gig - the one without any soul or groove.

But then there's stuff like this...

 

When I discovered EST I felt so lucky.

It's such a great feeling when I stumble upon  artists that I've not heard of before and they knock me off my feet just like in my teenage years (53 now).
Esbjorn Svensson ticked all my boxes, both intellectually and emotionally.

[Dad3353]

16 hours ago, PawelG said:

...But then there's stuff like this...

Wow..! Thanks for that; that 'EST' piece is wonderful. An eye (ear..?)-opener. I'll look 'em up further. Erroll Garner is a firm favourite of mine, too; I'm still working on playing 'Misty', after more decades than I wish to relate here..! 

[PawelG]

15 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Wow..! Thanks for that; that 'EST' piece is wonderful. An eye (ear..?)-opener. I'll look 'em up further. Erroll Garner is a firm favourite of mine, too; I'm still working on playing 'Misty', after more decades than I wish to relate here..! 

To my ears there's just so much emotion in this music, it's unreal.

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, PawelG said:

To my ears there's just so much emotion in this music, it's unreal.

... and sparse. Another example of 'less is more'. Tasty drums (or rather, percussion'...) 

[Japhet]

Aren't there examples in every genre of music that each of us likes or hates? Jazz covers an immense spectrum of music and I don't see how anybody could dislike all of it.