Shocking!

[phil.c60]

Firstly, Mods: if this is in the wrong place please move it!

Weird things happened at last nights gig. We set up as usual, Yamaha EMX512SC PA mixer/amp into two EV SX300's two mics. Harp player has a 9W Harp Train amp di'd into the PA. Me, LM3 into Barefaced Compact. No pedals except a tuner. Guitarist has Line 6 Helix plus matching Line 6 powered FRFR monitor thingy. All set up fine, we have done this lots of times. Then....Guitarist plugs in guitar, gets a shock from the mic. Only when he touches the strings. Both mics are the same. We switch everything off, check it and try again. The same. After a lot of fiddling around, swapping mains leads for spares, swapping xlr's, guitar leads, (and all our kit, leads etc is in A1 order - we're those sort of guys) trying spare guitar etc. it's still the same. Guitarist is adamant that as his kit is almost new it must be the pa. I am not so sure - it works and with his guitar unplugged  everything is fine.  I suggest we take the Helix out of the set-up and use the Harp Train for guitar pre-amp into the Line 6 FRFR for volume, harp player di's straight into the PA from his pedal board, still the same. By this time I have unplugged my rig completely including taking the plug out of the wall socket so it's not that. We are now running 20 minutes late. Finally I suggest we take the guitar into the Harp Train for on stage monitor and the di from that into the pa for guitar and completely jag the Line Six kit. Problem solved. We play straight through and have a good gig - on stage sound is not good but regular watchers tell us that it's fine out front - harp is wireless so he wanders about to check anyway and it's a thumbs up. Phew. Well, Bass Chat massive, any thoughts? We've got two gigs next weekend and then almost every week this year so I need a solution. Apart from that, and more importantly, harp player has an in-dwelling heart pacemaker/defibrillator and absolutely cannot afford to get an electric shock. Help!

 

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by phil.c60

[discreet]

I'm no expert, but it could be dodgy wiring at the venue. It's quite serious as even a low-amp shock can kill under the right (or wrong) circumstances. I carry an earth testing plug in my gig bag.

[phil.c60]

I did wonder about this, but of course the venue owner insisted that "They had never had a problem before" - I know,  I know  - they would, really wouldn't they. And the earth testing plug is a great idea - I'll get on that now. Thanks.

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by phil.c60

[discreet]

I bought this one, or one very like it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0795QCFLM/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_uZ4KBb5S8AP8T

 

I believe a RCD (Residual Current Device) is also a good idea. But I expect someone who knows what they're talking about will be along soon.

[Hellzero]

Typical earthing issue, and as @discreet mentioned it, it CAN kill. Pub and venue owners don't give a sh*t about their electrical installation, so checking the earth before even plugging in is a good idea.

[leftybassman392]

Good advice above. If your gear was ok before you played the venue and then wasn't when you did, I'd be extremely suspicious of the venue's electrics.

I always had an RCD device in the circuit when gigging. Fortunately I don't remember it ever tripping, but if it does then you know where the problem is...

[BassBunny]

I think it sounds like the venue wiring issue as well.

I find it quite annoying when YOU get asked for PAT testing certificates for your gear but ask a venue for the certification of their electrics and you just get a "What" stare back. A couple of venues we used to play at would never pass testing purely on a visual basis.

[Dad3353]

Sounds like a problem with the venue wiring to me. A couple of brief anecdotes; events from a few decades ago..? I was installing the lighting fx in a brand new disco complex. Cabling stuff up under the dj console, I had an intuition. No reason for it; just  thought it a Good Idea to test the side-by-side sockets I was going to use. Both read 220 volts, as they should, but I also decided to check the tension between them, and there was the surprise. They had been wired from different phases, and so had 380 volts between them..! Plugging connected stuff into both of these would have certainly 'fried' something, possibly the tech (me..!) or a DJ..! Why did I check this..? No reason, it was (up until then..!) not part of my routine; just a hunch. Lucky escape.
Less so for my unfortunate brother, 'roadying' for a local variety band. Plugged in the PA into the house sockets, turned it on, and smoked it all. The sockets were unmarked, but were 380 volts, not 220. The stack of Peavey 800W PA amps blew, taking every single HP with them in the JBL 8 x 15 columns. No FOH for the show that evening, and it took me several weeks to firstly order and receive, then install, all the elements that had suffered; there were a lot.
Moral of the stories..? Don't trust house wiring, ever. It's rare that it kills, but it only needs to be once... 

[PaulWarning]

we use this mixer amp, and have had trouble with venue wiring, shocks and funny noises after one gig, we took it in for repair, nothing wrong, try it at home or practice see if it still happens

[ambient]

Aren’t they supposed to as part of their insurance have regular inspection and testing carried out? 

[Mykesbass]

Was this at the Ranelagh @phil.c60? If so, there's your answer!

[JimBobTTD]

I experienced this at a rehearsal place years back - it was a dodgy mixer board. I went wireless after that. I figured that I will never be able to trust anywhere, so removing myself from the circuit was the only thing to do.

Also, my wife insisted on it. 

[PaulWarning]

8 minutes ago, ambient said:

Aren’t they supposed to as part of their insurance have regular inspection and testing carried out? 

they are, bit like we're supposed to have PAT testing I suspect.

[PaulWarning]

2 minutes ago, JimBobTTD said:

I experienced this at a rehearsal place years back - it was a dodgy mixer board. I went wireless after that. I figured that I will never be able to trust anywhere, so removing myself from the circuit was the only thing to do.

Also, my wife insisted on it. 

that never occurred to me, glad I'm wireless, perhaps I should get a wireless mic too, although I do try and avoid touching the mic with my lips, especially venue mics 😝

[phil.c60]

Thanks for your input everyone. Guitarist has done his own research and found this: https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1942#19932 which covers the exact problem we experienced and is very clear about how and why it happens.  Discreet: thanks again for your comment, I'll go shopping for a tester and start testing everywhere we play before we plug in. Mykesbass: I couldn't possibly comment. At least we found a solution on the night and actually had a good busy gig and they want to re-book us but I don't want to have the issue ever again so we'll see.

[fleabag]

For the future and for quick testing a socket, get one of these. I've using one for 10 years or more, and then when playing, use an RCD

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by fleabag

[Mykesbass]

27 minutes ago, phil.c60 said:

Thanks for your input everyone. Guitarist has done his own research and found this: https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1942#19932 which covers the exact problem we experienced and is very clear about how and why it happens.  Discreet: thanks again for your comment, I'll go shopping for a tester and start testing everywhere we play before we plug in. Mykesbass: I couldn't possibly comment. At least we found a solution on the night and actually had a good busy gig and they want to re-book us but I don't want to have the issue ever again so we'll see.

I'll just search your facebook posts then 😁 But yes, had those issues there before. Nothing crazy, just a little tingling on the lips - fairly innocuous for Kemptown on a Friday night!!