Gibson 2019...the year of fail.

[Woodinblack]

34 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

Thing with the Firebird X is that it shouldn't have progressed beyond a couple of prototypes.  I believe you also needed some additional hardware to make it work properly, or at the very least use it to it's full capacity.

Isn't that gibsons problem though (not their current financial useless CEO problem, but the other one). I played a firebird X, it played fine, it was quite a nice guitar to play. I am sure there are people who love them. I had a darkfire which was another of the heavily critisized models, it was great. Actually, it wasn't great, the electronics were stinky poo and it was badly put together, but it was a good guitar (and the piezo volume was inspired). 

The Explorer and flying V were disasters when they were brought out, noone wanted them.

Basically most guitarists are completely neophobic. If it hasn't been around for at least 20-30 years they are not interested. Bassists seem a bit better but still there is very much a 'what type of bass do you play, a P or a J'. 

Agreed that gibson shouldn't go for complex electronics (as they are terrible at it), but they should certainly experiment.

 

However, when you have a CEO who makes the rules and wont' accept discussions, you are never going to have a good range.

[Norris]

Already owning a thunderbird, the only other Gibson basses that appeal to me are the ripper & grabber. They don't make those atm though. I never could get on with the EB/SG shape and LPs don't do it for me either 

[NancyJohnson]

From a six string perspective, I just spotted a recent YT video for the 2019 Les Paul.  Interestingly, there's two guitars in the background of the glamour shot that aren't detailed in the 2019 range (or whatever passes for what's been announced).

 

 

[Woodinblack]

The moderne is here:

https://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBDSMDA19

Firbird is here.

https://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBDSFB119

 

Don't want a moderne, don't want a moderne, don't want a moderne.....

[NancyJohnson]

26 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

The moderne is here:

https://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBDSMDA19

Firbird is here.

https://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBDSFB119

 

Don't want a moderne, don't want a moderne, don't want a moderne.....

Ooh.  Why don't they include these in their line up?  (I guess they're ZZ Sounds exclusive models.)

The Moderne is lovely.  I don't think that I'd be able to get away with playing one though.  Would love an Explorer with the Moderne headstock.  Or better still a MusicMan St Vincent HH.

[Cato]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

The moderne is here:

https://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBDSMDA19

 

Don't want a moderne, don't want a moderne, don't want a moderne.....

According to that link ZZounds have already knocked $1300 off the list price and it's been less than a week since the guitar was announced.

Give it another couple of months and they'll be giving them away...

Edit: (just to point out that I do realise that was never any intention to sell them at the $3300 'list' price.)

Edited September 4, 2018 by Cato

[Woodinblack]

Would love a moderne, liked it the first time I saw it. Basically a flying V you can sit down with.

But I don't really play the guitar any more so not really worth it. Probably wouldn't buy another guitar unless a firebird VII came along cheap

Hmm.. moderne bass, I wonder how that would work out?

[skankdelvar]

Those $2,000 zzounds Firebirds... 

Silvermist FB1: pup slightly offset to left (same fault as gold Epi Bonamassa FB1 but not quite as pronounced)

 

Vintage SB FB1: pup centred but squint

[spectoremg]

Being unfamiliar with the Firebird X I've just taken a look. So a company with a luxury of legacy models thought this would be a good idea?

[Cato]

I had a look at the Firebird X as well.

To be fair I didn't think it was a terrible concept even though the execution was mind bogglingly complex and by all accounts didn't actually work too well, but in some ways it's not a million miles away from Music Man's Game Changer guitar and bass.

In recent years digitally friendly all singing and dancing computer compatible amps such the Boss Katana and the Fender Mustang have become quite popular and, in the case of the Katana at least, quite well respected as well.

So it sort of stands to reason that there might be also be a niche for a versatile, programmable guitar. Unfortunately the reality seems to be that very few people actually seem to want one, at least not at the price Music Man and Gibson are/were offering them for. I suppose if we did we'd all have gone the midi route years ago.

[AndyTravis]

I think it was just that - a poorly executed answer to a question nobody was asking.

[skankdelvar]

New Gibson Management Team Unveiled

L-R: Kim Matoon (CFO), James Curleigh (CEO), Cesar Gueikian (Chief Merchant Officer). Not Shown: Nat Zilka (Chairman), Christian Schmitz (Production)

Numerous sources are reporting the installation of Gibson's new management team. As one might expect, the air is thick with assertions of 'fresh start with a strong financial foundation ... strong team dynamic ... proven heritage and iconic status'. Indeed, some of the new team are naturally keen to highlight their credentials as (amateur) guitarists and long-time Gibson fans.

Which is all very nice, but what conclusions might one infer from the career histories of the '2018 model' top honchos? New CEO James Curleigh (centre above wearing mid-life crisis biker jacket) is the former boss at Levi Strauss brands. Bean counter Kim Matoon comes from Richemont (owner of luxury brands Cartier, Dunhill, Mont Blanc and Piaget among many others) and is therefore accustomed to unloading eye-wateringly expensive tat. 

While Curleigh and Matoon have branding credentials, what do Zilka, Guekian and Christian Schmitz bring to the party? Well, they've spent most of their time working for hedge funds and financiers, moving towering piles of money hither and yon, which makes sense for the chairman and the merchandising spod though not so much for the role of production director as now embodied in the German Christian Schmitz .

In fairness to Schmitz he spent a couple of years working on the sales side of Germany's equivalent of ATS tyres (only better, as obvs befits a German company). But one questions the relevance of Schmitz's spells at places like McKinsey and notes with a slightly raised eyebrow that he has been part of the transition team at Gibson over the course of the last year. Fanbois everywhere will hope that prolonged exposure to Hank's - shall we say - cavalier attitude to production has not eroded Herr Schmitz's genetically ingrained Teutonic efficiency. 

Like it or not, there's a very hedge-fundy feel to the team which might send a chill up the spine of those of us familiar with the recent personnel cull at hedge-fund owned Heritage Guitars of Kalamazoo (the old Gibson plant and staff), this allegedly because managers and workers were  vocally critical of cost-cutting measures impacting on QC.

On reflection, there is perhaps a further slight cause for concern: The CEO's last gig was as a brand chief. The CFO's last gig was as a CEO. The chairman and the merchandising chief have only ever worked as money men and the production guy's only non-money role was in sales. Is there a risk that some of these people are playing out of position? And though they all have tons of finance and branding experience, it would seem that not one of them has ever worked in guitar manufacture before their involvement with Gibson.

But some of them own Les Pauls so I'm sure everything will be just fine and dandy.

Edited October 26, 2018 by skankdelvar

[Woodinblack]

7 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

New Gibson Management Team Unveiled

But some of them own Les Pauls so I'm sure everything will be just fine and dandy.

Well, at least they aren't actually mad, so maybe it will be a good thing.

[floFC]

On 03/09/2018 at 22:20, steve-bbb said:

so out of morbid curiosity i went for a peek at this ... the comments are entertaining

http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Firebird/Gibson-USA/Firebird-X.aspx

It’s actually impossible to read the comments on that page, the scrolling banner at the top changes height depending on contents and the comments just shift up and down all the time. Website and guitar designers are the same team maybe 🤷‍♂️

(Or maybe it’s my phone)

[skankdelvar]

5 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Well, at least they aren't actually mad, so maybe it will be a good thing.

True dat. 

But one might speculate that the new team's historic connections with hedge fund and Gibson majority shareholder KKR means it's primarily there to rampage through the place like mad axemen turn things around with a view to shopping a gutted Gibson out to new investors.

It's a shame that suggestions a Japanese guitar manufacturer was eyeing up Gibson proved only to be rumours. Someone like Yamaha might have been more interested in the Guitary side of Gibson than in its future saleability. Mind you, a not insignificant slab of Gibson's US customers would probably have started banging on about Pearl Harbour.

[Woodinblack]

Well, yeh, it may work out bad, but at least now it actually has some hope which it didn't have before

[Rich]

On 26/10/2018 at 21:29, floFC said:

It’s actually impossible to read the comments on that page, the scrolling banner at the top changes height depending on contents and the comments just shift up and down all the time. Website and guitar designers are the same team maybe 🤷‍♂️

(Or maybe it’s my phone)

"You can't polish a turd."

"How to start off a new guitar series, by Gibson
Step I: Take one of your great designs, throw everything but the name out the window, make the wonkiest, most appalling design you can
Step II: Throw as much tech on it as you can and call it "futuristic"
Step III: throw a $4k price tag on it
Step IV: Profit"

"Remember when Homer Simpson designed a car that ruined his half-brother's company? That."

"I could have sworn that this 'guitar' was taken out back and put out of it's misery."

"Hahahahaha.... are you for real? It really does look like a bowling ball."

Edited October 28, 2018 by Rich

[ped]

Apart from the colour I think the Firebird X looks cool!! But then I’ve always liked basses with synth engines etc in them so there you go...

[skankdelvar]

9 minutes ago, ped said:

I think the Firebird X looks cool!!

You are - of course - entitled to your opinion but I would in all friendship counsel you against expressing it in public. The consequences would be insupportable.

[ped]

13 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

You are - of course - entitled to your opinion but I would in all friendship counsel you against expressing it in public. The consequences would be insupportable.

I pictured you slowly screwing a silencer onto a pistol when saying that 🤭

[skankdelvar]

 

Hank to camera: "Introducing the new 2011 Firebird X. I like it and - er - so does Ped".

[steve-bbb]

14 hours ago, floFC said:

Website and guitar designers are the same team maybe 🤷‍♂️

 

this ...

you, the guitarist, are merely the target subject to purchase their lifestyle choice defining commodity 

so dont y'all go getting any fancy ideas otherwise!  

[Grahambythesea]

I for one hope the Levi man can turn it around. He claims to be a guitarist so let’s hope he isn’t into weird colours and techno rubbish! The 2019 range of electrics on the website is a mere 2 pages of models, all pretty traditional looking as opposed to the 8 pages of 2018 models. However am I the only one who can’t find any basses there?

i know it’s not generally popular but I really like my 2013 EB5  it’s light, plays well and sounds good, the pull pot turns it single coil and gives a good Jazz like tone. Not wild about the scratch plate,  would have preferred something more like the EBO and the controls to be body mounted, but I suspect that was a cost cutting thing under Hank’s regime.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Grahambythesea
Typo

[Woodinblack]

2 minutes ago, Grahambythesea said:

i know it’s not generally popular but I really like my 2013 EB5  it’s light, plays well and sounds good, the pull pot turns it single coil and gives a good Jazz like tone. Not wild about the scratch plate,  would have preferred something more like the EBO and the controls to be body mounted, but I suspect that was a cost cutting thing under Hank’s regime.

I had a 2013 EB5, loved the weight, sound. Not keen on the looks but unfortunately the string spacing was too much for me. But at least one of the few basses that I didn't lose money on!

[MacDaddy]

On 02/09/2018 at 21:01, mikel said:

Why do people take such pleasure in the demise of a fine old instrument manufacturer? So they don't make a P bass, so what? The EB range was a standby of pub and club bands back in the late 60s and 70s.

well, not any more...