What do you value about your local music shop?

[Dad3353]

54 minutes ago, Graham said:

It strikes me that most small shops would do well to offer very good set-up and repair services, sell consumables - strings, sticks, drum heads, picks, leads etc at a decent price and only sell instruments as commission sales.

Takes away the capital expenditure needed on high value, low margin, low turn goods, keeps people, like a lot of us, who just use the shops for strings and set-ups happy and takes advantage of the buoyant used market. It would also have the advantage of having a variety of different instruments coming through the door at any given time, which might encourage people through the door more regularly.

A good range of services there, but would be difficult to generate enough turnover to pay the exorbitant commercial rates that shop premises attract; in a High Street, at least. Could work, maybe, if working from home, as long as the local bye-laws on that weren't infringed, I suppose. Sharing premises with another occupation could be an option, too (Hair-dressing salon..? Men's wear..? Haberdashery..? McDona... Nah, not Mcdo..!).

[PaulWarning]

9 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

A good range of services there, but would be difficult to generate enough turnover to pay the exorbitant commercial rates that shop premises attract; in a High Street, at least. Could work, maybe, if working from home, as long as the local bye-laws on that weren't infringed, I suppose. Sharing premises with another occupation could be an option, too (Hair-dressing salon..? Men's wear..? Haberdashery..? McDona... Nah, not Mcdo..!).

depending on the size a lot of small shops have zero business rates to pay (don't know how much location has to do with it), I know my old newsagents shop falls into that category 

[Dad3353]

6 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

depending on the size a lot of small shops have zero business rates to pay (don't know how much location has to do with it), I know my old newsagents shop falls into that category 

Ah..! I didn't know that, so thanks. So much the better, then. 

[Norris]

I can't remember the last time I went in one of my local shops. The ones that deal with "premium" brands like Fender and Gibson have to take the minimum orders - and usually do so with guitars rather than basses, presumably because they are easier to shift. The other shops stock entry-level stuff that I'm not interested in. Consumables are usually not the ones I'm after and are more expensive than online.

What I do miss are the shops that used to sell second hand gear, as you never knew what you would find. They were all killed off by eBay years ago though

Music shops in Leicester effectively died for me when Humbucker Music went up in flames all those years ago. It was the one place you could hang out for a cup of tea and a laugh, and not feel like you were imposing on the staff

[peteb]

2 hours ago, Graham said:

It strikes me that most small shops would do well to offer very good set-up and repair services, sell consumables - strings, sticks, drum heads, picks, leads etc at a decent price and only sell instruments as commission sales.

Takes away the capital expenditure needed on high value, low margin, low turn goods, keeps people, like a lot of us, who just use the shops for strings and set-ups happy and takes advantage of the buoyant used market. It would also have the advantage of having a variety of different instruments coming through the door at any given time, which might encourage people through the door more regularly.

The trouble with that is strings, sticks, etc are low value sales with a low margin. Guitars do have a decent margin but can you sell enough to justify having all your cash tied up in sock? I think that many small shops do rely on repairs to keep going. 

1 hour ago, PaulWarning said:

depending on the size a lot of small shops have zero business rates to pay (don't know how much location has to do with it), I know my old newsagents shop falls into that category 

That is not necessarily true in all (most) areas. 

[PaulWarning]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

 

That is not necessarily true in all (most) areas. 

depends on the rateable value apparently

You will not pay business rates on a property with a rateable value of £12,000 or less. For properties with a rateable value of £12,001 to £15,000, the rate of relief will go down gradually from 100% to 0%. If your rateable value is £13,500, you'll get50% off your bill.

[mentalextra]

On 08/08/2018 at 16:52, Skol303 said:

The only time I ever visit a music shop is when I need something immediately that day and am too impatient to wait for an online delivery (a set of strings or a patch cable, for instance).

I’d love to say I’m more supportive of music shops, but I just find it far more convenient to shop online. Although I appreciate that’s perhaps not a popular opinion

I just can’t be doing with the faff of:

• Actually visiting them.
• Finding out they don’t stock what I need when I do visit (despite it being shown as available on their website).
• Discovering that I could have bought the same item cheaper online anyway.
• Human interaction generally.

I can see the value if you want to try out an instrument before you buy it. And I'm all for shops offering a more independent alternative to faceless globalism, etc. But meh.

[cheddatom]

On 14/08/2018 at 12:15, Graham said:

It strikes me that most small shops would do well to offer very good set-up and repair services...

I totally agree with this, but it seems common, at least in my area, for these people to do awful set-ups, or set up to their preference rather than the customers' etc. I have a few bad examples of service from 3 different guys in my area

[Monkey Steve]

4 hours ago, cheddatom said:

I totally agree with this, but it seems common, at least in my area, for these people to do awful set-ups, or set up to their preference rather than the customers' etc. I have a few bad examples of service from 3 different guys in my area

yeah - I've made the mistake of taking gear in to little local shops where the owner claims to be able to do repairs and maintenance and had very shoddy work done.  The bigger ones tend to have a dedicated person who actually knows what they are doing (as a generalisation - I'm sure there are some terrible people in the big shops too)

As a wider point, it occurs to me that the death of the shops is because they are largely a male preserve...stick with me. 

Henry Juskeiwicz recently said that Gibson weren't selling guitars to half the population because guitar shops were in the rough areas of town where young girls wouldn't want to go.  I don't agree with a lot of that, particularly in the UK, but I did think at the time that music shops (rather than Gibson) probably suffer because they largely sell stuff to men because men hate going shopping.

Or at least men generally don't enjoy shopping anything like as much as women do.  My experience of going shopping for, say, jeans, with a girlfriend is that I will go to the jeans shop that I know stock Levis, pick out the pair of Levis that I already know that I want, try them on to make sure they fit, pay and go home.  When any of my previous girlfriends have wanted some jeans they would take me round every shop in town, try on every different style and make of jeans in every colour available, before usually going back to the first shop and buying the pair they found there three hours previously, because they've now made certain that they are the best ones in town.  Let's celebrate this as a difference between the sexes and not sexism, and I'm happy to concede that some men love shopping and some women hate it (although every woman that says they hate it who I have gone shopping with was clearly lying).

To the topic at hand.  Men buy most of the strings, leads, picks, etc.  By now we have a pretty good idea which set of strings we want, and now that we have the internet we can simply let Google find us the cheapest deal.  Even if we don't know which set we want, now that we have the internet we can simply let Google find us a range of reviews, ratings and opinions to help us make our mind up.  We don't miss going round all of the shops in the area to see what brands and gauges they have, compare prices and have a chat with the shop assistant about which strings they would suggest because we never actually enjoyed doing that in the first place.  Add to that the distance selling regulations meaning that even if it's something you want to try first you can return it if you don't like it, and there's really no need to leave the house for anything.  Brilliant!

If your business is selling stuff to people who would really prefer a different way of buying it then you're going to suffer when that new way of buying it appears.  I remember Anderton's when they were a middling sized shop down a back street in Guildford in the days before the internet, and they deserve huge credit for seeing the changes on the horizon and being ahead of it all.

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, Monkey Steve said:

  When any of my previous girlfriends have wanted some jeans

Nice subtle touch there. Stay in the good books with the "current" girlfriend. 

Dave

[MiltyG565]

On 14/08/2018 at 12:15, Graham said:

It strikes me that most small shops would do well to offer very good set-up and repair services, sell consumables - strings, sticks, drum heads, picks, leads etc at a decent price and only sell instruments as commission sales.

Takes away the capital expenditure needed on high value, low margin, low turn goods, keeps people, like a lot of us, who just use the shops for strings and set-ups happy and takes advantage of the buoyant used market. It would also have the advantage of having a variety of different instruments coming through the door at any given time, which might encourage people through the door more regularly.

Yes, this does seem to be "the way", but I also agree with Dad that it's hard to scrape together a successful business let alone a comfortable earning from selling strings alone, but keeping the capital investment low and stock turnover high is certainly a better way to do business.

[PaulWarning]

On 17/08/2018 at 10:05, cheddatom said:

I totally agree with this, but it seems common, at least in my area, for these people to do awful set-ups, or set up to their preference rather than the customers' etc. I have a few bad examples of service from 3 different guys in my area

I think most people can do their own basic set ups after a while, there's plenty of good tutorials on youtube, so we're back to catering for the newbies.

The more I think about it the more I realise the High St and outlets like small music shops are stuffed by the internet and out of town retail parks.

[mentalextra]

2 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

I think most people can do their own basic set ups after a while, there's plenty of good tutorials on youtube, so we're back to catering for the newbies.

The more I think about it the more I realise the High St and outlets like small music shops are stuffed by the internet and out of town retail parks.

But even small high st shops can have a website? Best of both worlds? I still dont see why high st shops are automatically 'the good guys' and online are 'bad guys'. How we shop and how we research prospective puchases has changed. High st shops shouldn't take this personally! The internet is not going away.

[PaulWarning]

19 hours ago, mentalextra said:

But even small high st shops can have a website? Best of both worlds? I still dont see why high st shops are automatically 'the good guys' and online are 'bad guys'. How we shop and how we research prospective puchases has changed. High st shops shouldn't take this personally! The internet is not going away.

I would imagine most music shops have some sort of internet presence, if they haven't they deserve to go bust, at one time if you wanted something locally you went to yellow pages, now you google it.

It's not a question of good guys and bad guys it's evolution, just like the Supermarkets have killed off the corner shop, especially since they moved into the convenience sector

[ambient]

There are three large stores in Birmingham; PMT, Fairdeal and there’s a Guitar Guitar. I’ve never set foot in either of them. We used to have a couple of real; i.e. not chain store shops when I was a child, I never went in them either, my mom used to go in while I waited outside. 

I have been to Bass direct, quite a few times, I bought stuff from Mark before he even opened the shop. I like that the staff there actually leave you alone, if you want something then you ask them. I hate; as is often the case, walking in somewhere and immediately being approached by someone, as well meaning as they are, it annoys me.

I prefer shopping online.

Something I did notice reading through this thread, totally off-topic, the amount of people who mentioned having to take into account petrol and parking charges, why not catch the train or bus?

[dmccombe7]

Usually i get the train into Glasgow but its a bit of an adventure on its own. Not so bad getting there altho it can take 1.5hrs because of the train route where i can drive in less than an hour. On way home the local bus normally waits for the train getting in but if the train is even a few minutes delayed the bus leaves and its another hour till the next bus. Its over £20 for a taxi from station to our house. I usually make a day out of it with my wife. She does her clothes shops while i visit Guitar Guitar.

Cost of fuel and parkng charges won't be much different than 2 off return train tickets 

"Simples" but not ideal

Dave

[Maude]

3 hours ago, ambient said:

Something I did notice reading through this thread, totally off-topic, the amount of people who mentioned having to take into account petrol and parking charges, why not catch the train or bus?

Where I live there are few busses, if I got the bus I would have to change busses at the nearest town to get the bus to Plymouth (nearest instrument shop), a considerable wait between busses. All in it's about an hour and three quarter journey. 

The nearest train station is five miles away, so drive to the train station, pay to park and then get the train. 

Both of these journeys are considerably more costly and time consuming than just driving myself into Plymouth, half an hour by car. 

For some people, public transport really isn't an option. I worked out once that for a place I used to work at, if I left home at my usual time and aimed to arrive home at my usual time, using public transport I could be in work for one hour and twenty minutes rather than the usual nine hours. For some is just doesn't work. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Maude

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, ambient said:

Something I did notice reading through this thread, totally off-topic, the amount of people who mentioned having to take into account petrol and parking charges, why not catch the train or bus?

Public transport? hahah - you in london or something?

[ambient]

39 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Public transport? hahah - you in london or something?

It’s just me, I hate cars 😁.

[Woodinblack]

I guess it depends where you are. I am not rich enough to afford public transport so I have to stick to cars. And trains are right out, even if I could afford one I would need to get an expensive (and dangerous) taxi to get to one.

[dmccombe7]

For me to get where i worked would be :-

Bus to Lanark. 2omins

Either a bus or train to Motherwell between 30mins and 60mins depending on train or bus. Train being quicker.

Bus to Carfin 15mins

Walk to work 10mins

Total minimum estimated 75mins minimum. Bus to lanark is on the hour so if i started at 9am i would need to get the 7am bus getting me into work at maybe 8:15am That's 45 mins before i start. Knowing my company they would expect me to start working right away at no extra wages.

Car = 45mins allowing for traffic (25miles) at 30mpg  just under a gallon of fuel currently £1.29 a litre lets say £5 each way. Total return max £10

Leave the house 8am ish get to work approx 8:40 to 8:45.  

Public transport buying return tickets = £4 for bus to Lanark, think its about £6 for train then approx £3 for bus at Motherwell again so total £13 return

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by dmccombe7

[Woodinblack]

Yeh, I learned to drive because I couldn't afford public transport any more, either the cost, the implied cost of the fact it took me 1.5 hours longer, or the fact that some of the time, it didn't turn up.

[mentalextra]

46 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

For me to get where i worked would be :-

Bus to Lanark. 2omins

Either a bus or train to Motherwell between 30mins and 60mins depending on train or bus. Train being quicker.

Bus to Carfin 15mins

Walk to work 10mins

Total minimum estimated 75mins minimum. Bus to lanark is on the hour so if i started at 9am i would need to get the 7am bus getting me into work at maybe 8:15am That's 45 mins before i start. Knowing my company they would expect me to start working right away at no extra wages.

Car = 45mins allowing for traffic (25miles) at 30mpg  just under a gallon of fuel currently £1.29 a litre lets say £5 each way. Total return max £10

Leave the house 8am ish get to work approx 8:40 to 8:45.  

Public transport buying return tickets = £4 for bus to Lanark, think its about £6 for train then approx £3 for bus at Motherwell again so total £13 return

 

Yeah, I live in "that London". Transport links into the centre are excellent obviously for commuting. From my local tube station to Oxford Circus in around 35 mins, about 11 miles. Whereas, some days I need to travel across to North London which involves three buses, leaving my house at 7:30am gets me there around 9:30am, same 11 miles?

I bet your journey has some spectacular vistas  compared to mine?

[Maude]

Of course the other problem with public transport is the public

[dmccombe7]

19 minutes ago, mentalextra said:

Yeah, I live in "that London". Transport links into the centre are excellent obviously for commuting. From my local tube station to Oxford Circus in around 35 mins, about 11 miles. Whereas, some days I need to travel across to North London which involves three buses, leaving my house at 7:30am gets me there around 9:30am, same 11 miles?

I bet your journey has some spectacular vistas  compared to mine?

Better than yours i reckon but mostly towns and villages apart from the first 8 miles thru gorgeous countryside. 

I remember back in late 70's doing a training course at Foxboro in Redhill Surrey. 2 weeks course and i was bored at night so decided to get train home for the weekend. I got the train at Redhill and into London somewhere. Onto the tube to Euston and walked upstairs to my  train to Glasgow. Off the train at Glasgow and then downstairs to the underground station and home to Motherwell station. I wasn't outside at all all the way from Redhill till i reached Motherwell. I was fair impressed by that.

I just found London to be a bit over-whelming with far too many people. I don't envy anyone that lives there

Dave

Edited August 19, 2018 by dmccombe7