Finished Pics! Dreadnought acoustic (guitar) for me?

[TheGreek]

Remember to post pics in the "Gallery" thread when you done...

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, TheGreek said:

Remember to post pics in the "Gallery" thread when you done...

Yup - will do

Have a great day tomorrow!  Very sorry to be missing it.

[TheGreek]

What? Have you got written permission not to come??

I'm going to check with Silvia to see if you're allowed to stay away...ridiculous!!

[Andyjr1515]

OK - last shots before the potential of me wrecking it and it becoming BBQ fuel.

This is one of the more - er - exciting bits of building acoustics.  The fact that pretty much the most critical and difficult bit comes at the very end!     Fitting the bridge.

Here we are before I potentially wreck it:

The neck is fitted - and I'm pleased with the fit.  The tuners are some leftovers of a gold/black mixed set I used for one of my electric builds - that one was black knobs on gold bodies, so the leftovers are gold knobs on black bodies.  The neck profile will be tweaked once the strings are on it - because then I can shape and play and reshape the neck to get it just right for my playing style.  Then it's just the fret-levelling and final setup.  

But first I have to fit the bridge.  And it has to be right.  The only thing you have to play with is the saddle insert height and the 1/2mm or so either side of centre of the saddle top for intonation.  So that bridge HAS to be glued in the right place.  If it isn't, the guitar will be, at best, lack-lustre and, at worst, pretty much unplayable. 

This weekend is a bit higgledy piggledy for family reasons, but in any bits of spare time I will be re-looking on the various websites about the best way of positioning and fixing, finding my bridge clamp and then checking, re-checking, re-re-checking EVERYTHING before attempting the scrape (the area that the bridge will be glued to needs to have the varnish scraped off first) and finally the fix.

It's only a guitar, but this is the bit of the whole thing that most scares the c**p out of me! 

[SpondonBassed]

18 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

It's only a guitar, but this is the bit of the whole thing that most scares the c**p out of me! 

I think we're all with you on that Andy.  Take a deep breath... and relax.  You've made some superlative instruments to date.

I really LOVE your headstock.  The tuner alignment is what's caught my eye.  I haven't seen that anywhere else.  Is it original?  It's bl**dy good!

[Andyjr1515]

3 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

I really LOVE your headstock.  The tuner alignment is what's caught my eye.  I haven't seen that anywhere else.  Is it original?  It's bl**dy good!

Thanks! 

It's a bit of an evolution from a number of the builds I've done over the years.  It's actually identical to Jane's Swift Lite:

 

I like it because it lets the strings be perfectly straight through the nut but isn't quite as cut off as, say, a Seagull acoustic (which is very triangular and a bit 'cut short')

[Andyjr1515]

In between all the other stuff on the day's agenda, I managed to steal enough snatches of time to get all of the bridge stuff sorted up to and including gluing! 

A bit picture heavy, but this is how I went about it - 

First was to use the Stewmac fret calculator to determine the exact distances from the nut to the middle of the saddle slot for the top and bottom E.  The masking tape will be used to prevent glue squeeze-out going onto the finished top, but is also useful for ensuring that the position doesn't inadvertently slip:

Next is to score round the bridge with a scalpel into the finish:

 

Then to scrape away the carefully applied finish from within the score line!:

Then I double checked the position and drilled through the peg holes for the top and bottom E.  The two pegs will be used in the initial clamping to prevent the bridge 'floating' out of position on the wet glue:

 

Then I put more masking tape around the back (should have done this first and just scalpeled though it round the bridge!) and got out my bridge clamp and home-made bridge sides clamp:

 

Then added the glue, and at first just used the metal clamp, positioning the bridge with a couple of string pegs through the bridge and into the two peg holes drilled in the top.  Once I was sure the bridge was secure, I removed the two pegs and popped the home-made clamp to press the bridge sides firmly down:

 

Then carefully wiped off the squeeze-out before removing the masking tape.  This will be left clamped overnight to fully dry:

 

The bridge is still accurately within the scraped area, but I won't know if everything is stuck where it should be until the morning!  Here's hoping 

 

 

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I like it because it lets the strings be perfectly straight through the nut but isn't quite as cut off as, say, a Seagull acoustic (which is very triangular and a bit 'cut short')

There is a pleasing asymmetry to it whilst maintaining the strings in line as you say.  The photo angle above captures it from an angle that shows off the parallel mounting of the E, A, G and B string tuners

Edited September 29, 2018 by SpondonBassed

[bottomofthebarrel]

Looks really good! Excellent use of the masking tape, I will try that on my uke.

[TheGreek]

A missed opportunity to fit one like @Happy Jack

[Andyjr1515]

Not quite as finished as it looks, but the only way of seeing if the bridge is in the right place is to string it up!

And so that's what I've just done.

And I'm very pleased with how it looks.  And more to the point - even though not even the frets have been levelled and the saddle or nut aren't yet height adjusted - it sounds fantastic!     I'm thrilled and surprised in equal measure!

Oh, and yes - against all odds - the bridge is in the right place 

 

So still to do is:

- Levelling/crowning frets

- Cleaning up fretboard

- Installing electrics

- Setting up saddle and nut

- Strap button on heel

- Fine tuning neck profile and final slurry and buff

- Final polish once varnish is fully cured

 

But it's sufficiently there for me to start work on the next two projects - one full build and one major mod - and those are both basses.  More about those in a couple of new threads soon  

[Pea Turgh]

Would love to hear some sound clips Andy!

[Andyjr1515]

13 minutes ago, Pea Turgh said:

Would love to hear some sound clips Andy!

I'll do some as soon as the frets have been done and the set up completed.  Hopefully sometime next week

[BassTool]

Fantastic work as usual Andy 😎

[Andyjr1515]

Tried to finish this off.  Almost but not quite. 

First popped the magnets onto the truss-rod cover:

...and hey presto:

 

Then installed the Shadow Doubleplay electrics.  It comprises a blendable under-saddle piezo:

 

and a mini magnetic pickup at the end of the fretboard:

I suspect that this is intended for a flatter fingerboard radius (prob 12" - I've build closer to an electric neck with 10" rad and locking tuners.  Makes it easier for me to transfer from my electric to the acoustic) so I sunk it into the top to make sure it didn't foul the top and bottom E strings:

As it turns out, I've overdone this and will, at some stage, take it off and pop a shim underneath.

I then installed the preamp / blend unit that sits inside the soundhole (I'll photo it in the 'finished' shots) and the rear strap pin / jack socket.

Before I put the strings back on, I cleaned up and oiled the fretboard. 

The frets - well, at the moment there is absolutely no buzz anywhere so I haven't even polished them!  When I get a moment, I'll at least do that but there is no need for levelling and crowning

By the way, before you go thinking I know what I'm doing, that is a first... 

And - other than the low nano-mag pickup being a bit quieter than the piezo - we have electric amplification.

 

Lastly, now the strings are on, I do my usual 'sit it like a cello and scrape the neck to the final shape by feel, spinning it round and playing it then re-scraping until it feels like I want it.  This is followed by a quick tru-oil slurry and buff and it's good to go within an hour.

Am I the only one that does this?  No matter how well you fit a neck to the profile templates, I don't think you can really tell if it's right until you play it.  So that's what I do.  And the most subtle tweaks can make all the difference!

 

 

Remaining jobs:

- Replace the nut with a slightly wider one (plays fine with the present one but it isn't quite wide enough

- Raise the nano-mag pickup (ditto)

- Side dots!  It's a big b****r and there is no way you can see the top of the fretboard when you are playing it

- Final polish in about a week's time

- Take the arty farty photos

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Andyjr1515

[honza992]

On 28/09/2018 at 16:16, Andyjr1515 said:

With my varnish method - which is a bit of a compromise due to lack of facilities, knowledge and skills - I get to the point where I have to say 'OK - Stop there...that's close enough'.  The reason is that, too often, if I 'just give it one last coat' it invariably makes things a lot worse rather than making what is basically OK into something a bit closer to perfect.

And for this - especially as it is a bitsa build for my own use - I've got to the 'OK - Stop there...that's close enough!'

Having no spray facilities or equipment, I basically wipe or brush the finishes.  Anyway, here is the body prior to fully hardening and final polishing:

It doesn't bear very close examination but, for the overall look, it looks OK at the cursory level.

The next bit is probably only of interest to those who commented about their own trails and tribulations of finishing  

I promised I would run through some of the finishing trials and tribulations.  I'll split that into 4 aspects: top vs back&sides; prep vs finish coat.

AS ALWAYS, THIS IS JUST HOW I DO IT, NOT HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE!   

Preparation (post finish-sanding):

Back and sides: I use tru-oil slurry and wipe to seal and grain-fill all in one go.  Works a treat, even filling the horrendous tear-out I had at the back.  Couple of sessions morning, left to dry between each, then sand the following day and it's usually ready to take the gloss.

Top:  Tru-oil would do the job used just like for the back and sides above, but for spruce and maple it does tend to give a reddish hue and so, certainly for an acoustic top, I don't use that method.  Last acoustic, I used an old classical guitar method of egg white.  Yes - standard egg white, brushed on, left to dry, sanded off.  Maybe repeat, but basically then ready to varnish.  Didn't do that this time...and wish I had.  What I did try was Chestnut Melamine.  Very stinky.  Tough and no discolouration beyond the darkening of the dampened spruce.  But I couldn't sand it down without it becoming a little patchy (probably not enough coats) so basically sanded it off the surface and used that which has soaked in just as a sanding sealer.  NEXT TIME - I'm going to use egg white again.  In retrospect, it did the job perfectly well.

Finish Varnish:

 Here, my big restriction is that I do not have the facilities to spray and therefore I am restricted to wipe-on or brush-on finish techniques.  Those of you who have followed previous threads will know that my preferred finish for a full-gloss is good old Ronseal Hardglaze Polyurethane Varnish. 

I used to do this exclusively wipe-on but since Ronseal did a formulation change to lower the volatiles, I've found that thinning the varnish anywhere near what I would do for wipe-on gives major problems and that less thinning and using an artist's fan brush is the best alternative:

 

Method is simple:

I thin the varnish down with about 5% white spirits (this is WAY different to my wipe-on with the original Ronseal formula which could take up to 50% thinning!)

I brush it on - not stopping and ensuring each strip is merged into the previous one (that will already be stiffening), laying off gently with the brush at each strip to even out any ripples or air bubbles

After drying, I use micro-web (1800 to 4000 ish) used wet and then recoat once totally dry and cleaned with a good quality tack cloth (I use a microfibre cloth designed for cleaning windows)

Now - the trouble is with the new Ronseal formulation is that for subsequent coats, the varnish has more adhesion to itself than it does to the previous dried coat of varnish.  This means that it parts, like the Red Sea parted for Moses, leaving what looks like deep brush marks!  (I have a photo somewhere I'll try to find).  The answer is, of course, to sand and give it a key.  But then the 'final' coat shows the dull patches of the sanded substrate (even with 2000+ grit).  So you do another coat without sanding.  Then it creeps again. Etc Etc Etc

And then every now and again, it is almost OK.

And that's where I STOP.  Which is where I started this post 

I keep meaning to contact Ronseal - they MUST have other people that have the same issue!  And it is 2018.  To echo @honza992 's earlier comment - can it really be THAT difficult to make gloss varnish that can be applied successfully and works?

 

But why, I hear you ask, does Andyjr1515 use old fashioned Ronseal polyurethane gloss rather than a modern water-based varnish anyway?

 

Well - this is Ronseal Hardglaze:

And this is the exact same wood, prepared in the exact same way...but finished with one of the better water-based gloss varnishes, Osmo Polyx Gloss:

 

It's nice enough - but it ain't the same!

 

Thanks Andy, really really useful info.  I've heard of eggwhites being used before but only ever on accoustic guitars.  Very interesting.  Yet another technique for me to try at some point!

[Andyjr1515]

10 hours ago, honza992 said:

Thanks Andy, really really useful info.  I've heard of eggwhites being used before but only ever on accoustic guitars.  Very interesting.  Yet another technique for me to try at some point!

To be honest, I would probably only use it for an acoustic top and that is simply to avoid the slight discoloration on the spruce of my favoured prep method which is slurry and wiping tru oil.

  For an acoustic, figuring  features look fine (bearsfoot, etc) but shade differences tend to detract, certainly in my own view.  The egg white does seem to reduce this kind of shading (although I'm sure other products do) but is very wet when applied and that can cause other issues because of that.

[SpondonBassed]

52 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

The egg white does seem to reduce this kind of shading (although I'm sure other products do) but is very wet when applied and that can cause other issues because of that.

Would one of those issues be warpage?

[Andyjr1515]

8 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

Would one of those issues be warpage?

In reality, probably not so much other than maybe veneers bubbling but water based stains will tend to run, etc, and certainly the grain rise is spectacular (although that is sanded down). 

It is probably in my imagination but, gosh, it is VERY wet.

[Andyjr1515]

A couple of unplugged soundclips.  Just noodling stuff:

https://soundcloud.com/andy-rogers-6/sets/ajr-dreadnought-acoustic-soundclips

 

Probably best listened to on headphones

Andy

Edited October 3, 2018 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

And here are the finished pics

As always, thank you all for your encouragement along the way - always greatly appreciated!

[ezbass]

Another cracking build and a very nice finish.

[Bigwan]

Outstanding!

[BigRedX]

The binding and inlays on that look fantastic!

Yet another quality build.

[honza992]

Lovely job,beautiful work.