WinterMute Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Yep, live and studio, quite separate things. I still like my audio as accurate as possible however... Don't see much point in compromising if you can afford it and the kit is available that'll do the job. I ran the BF BT for 3 years in a number of not always perfect environments, and all I got was praise for how good the bass sounded from the FoH guys, it's absolutely not all about the 30Hz, it's about the way the cab articulates the sound you put through it. For me I've yet to come across a cab that does that as well as the BF. As always, your mileage may vary... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 30 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said: 23Hz is fine for studio work but a higher F3 point may be better live. There are a few reasons to use an HPF live. Firstly to tame room resonance. Each room is different and some are very resonant below 45Hz. Secondly to save the driver from unwanted excursion. The10-30 Hz region is useless in terms of Instrument reproduction but can cause excessive driver excursion and reduce the headroom available from your amp. The thuminator video is very informative.... Duke Le Juene from Audio Kinetics says that the F3 point should be twice the fundamental frequency of the lowest string when played open. So 60-80Hz depending on how your bass is strung. Interesting last point. Do you have a link to his article where he explains this (and what an F3 point is for us mere mortals! 😂)? Seems to suggest not really needing to worry too much at all about whether a cab can handle the really low end (i.e. 30Hz to 40Hz)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterMute Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 12 minutes ago, Al Krow said: Interesting last point. Do you have a link to his article where he explains this (and what an F3 point is for us mere mortals! 😂)? Seems to suggest not really needing to worry too much at all about whether a cab can handle the really low end (i.e. 30Hz to 40Hz)? Alex has some interesting this to say about excursion for bass drivers, the units he uses now are designed for extreme excursion specifically to handle the sub 60Hz content. The reason a lot of studio guys (and live I believe) hard filter the LF is that LF below 50-60Hz is very difficult to hear accurately and causes all sorts of problems. Most studio monitors roll off quite dramatically below 50Hz, and as the saying goes, if you can't hear it you should fear it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 One of the best things about the Walkabout head is that first parametric band: I set them both extreme left, so it rolls off (according to the dials) 15db at 30Hz (and tho I haven't seen the shelving, presumably more than that), and it sounds soooo much better in the real world...even though (or possibly despite) the BF cab having very good very low extension, in virtually every scenario, I don't want it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlord Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I've done a fair share of research on these brands you're looking at. Currently I own a Vanderkley 112EXT and a Bergantino HD112. They are great cabs but yes, they are coloured, if your ideal cab just puts out what goes in then you'll probably have better luck with the Barefaced 12s. And yes the Vanderkley is bright (although you can compensate for that to a degree with EQ). I get what you're saying about the BF looks but up close I didn't find them so bad. And you can order them with a coloured baffle at a small extra fee. The red baffle, a la Vanderkley, is pretty good looking IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 13 hours ago, Dragonlord said: I've done a fair share of research on these brands you're looking at. Currently I own a Vanderkley 112EXT and a Bergantino HD112. They are great cabs but yes, they are coloured, if your ideal cab just puts out what goes in then you'll probably have better luck with the Barefaced 12s. And yes the Vanderkley is bright (although you can compensate for that to a degree with EQ). I get what you're saying about the BF looks but up close I didn't find them so bad. And you can order them with a coloured baffle at a small extra fee. The red baffle, a la Vanderkley, is pretty good looking IMO. I am right in thinking that the Berg is more coloured than the Vanderkley with Barefaced being least coloured? When I asked Mark Vanderkley what was "flat" for the tweeter, he said it was "taste." I'd been running my Markbass cabs with the tweeters full on so nothing was cut, but I couldn't control the treble quite to my own taste. What does everyone think? Do the other 3 allow for this type of control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 23 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said: I am right in thinking that the Berg is more coloured than the Vanderkley with Barefaced being least coloured? The Bergs and VK's are coloured and are coloured differently to each other. The design parameters are not about being 'flat(ter) response'. The Big Baby II and Big Twin II are designed to attempt to iron the colour out. Colour is often seen as a negative trait and it can be for poorer speaker examples, but in the case of the likes of Bergantino I would say the colour isn't to detract from the natural sound of your instrument but to support it. There are for example some cabinets I have reviewed that were so coloured that all you could hear was the sound of the speakers being impressed on every note. One cabinet actually gave me a headache it was so bad. Another thing to help confuse matters is that some speaker cabinets don't seem to allow the voice of a different amplifier to come through as much as others. I suppose this is the same as the above but just coming from a different angle. An amp I played with recently seemed to make my speaker cabinets overly bright and unbalanced. I had to mess with the EQ to get everything to play ball, whereas my amplifier of choice is pretty much left with zero EQ on at all and I can play digital audio through it with smiles from me all day long. Something to think about I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlord Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said: I am right in thinking that the Berg is more coloured than the Vanderkley with Barefaced being least coloured? When I asked Mark Vanderkley what was "flat" for the tweeter, he said it was "taste." I'd been running my Markbass cabs with the tweeters full on so nothing was cut, but I couldn't control the treble quite to my own taste. What does everyone think? Do the other 3 allow for this type of control? Well, as Dan said, they are differently coloured. Mind you, I have the (ceramic loaded) HD112 and not the HDN that you're looking at. The Vanderkley is a very sweet sounding cab and I can definately understand many players falling in love with its sound. Personally I'm going to move both (for different reasons), I have an Audiokinesis on the way (which should be pretty similar to Barefaced). But yeah, expect to use your eq to take a cab like this to where you like it, it may sound dull at first, whereas other cabs could take you closer to a more pleasant and familiar sound with little to no eq adjustments. Edited August 2, 2018 by Dragonlord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 On 31/07/2018 at 10:19, Wolverinebass said: . So with this in mind, I come to 3 choices - Bergantino HDN212, Barefaced Big Twin 2 and Vanderkley 212LNT. The treble extension is very important to me as I quite often play 12 or 8 string basses, which are distorted in the upper edge for more bite. That is the acid test for me and indeed my own unique criteria which probably nobody on the forum will look at as something they would use to subjectively measure something. I had to go back to your original post to reacquaint myself with your requirements. I think the BT2, with that nice big tweeter waveguide will reward you with clarity across the stage. The BT2 is all about maximum balanced off-axis response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, dood said: I had to go back to your original post to reacquaint myself with your requirements. I think the BT2, with that nice big tweeter waveguide will reward you with clarity across the stage. The BT2 is all about maximum balanced off-axis response. Cheers Dan. I played one at the 2013 south east bash and remember I could almost walk in a 150 degree arc in front of it without the sound changing markedly. I was playing Si's rig with quite a lot of bass so it wasn't anywhere near the settings I would use, but it was very impressive. It's not just about clarity though. If you listened to the Sansamp DI from my 12 string it sounded like a buzzsaw with absolutely no low end. That wasn't what came out the speakers. When I tried Al Krow's Vanderkley, I did the same settings with the tweeter on full and it nearly took our heads off. Admittedly, there was still low end, but the treble was just as massively overpowering as the DI would have been. I'm quite torn with this. Plus at £1200 for a cab it makes it a distinctly difficult choice as they're all about the same price. Please, somebody say something definitive! 🤣 Edited August 2, 2018 by Wolverinebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 You really liked my Vanderkley. Just get the VK210 LNT 4ohm which is slightly bigger size wise (and slightly less bright, which I think you'll also prefer) version of the MNT you played through (but with double the power handling). You'll pick one up for around £650 s/h in vgc. How's that for definitive. And you can pop round any time to try it out beforehand 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said: Cheers Dan. I played one at the 2013 south east bash and remember I could almost walk in a 150 degree arc in front of it without the sound changing markedly. I was playing Si's rig with quite a lot of bass so it wasn't anywhere near the settings I would use, but it was very impressive. It's not just about clarity though. If you listened to the Sansamp DI from my 12 string it sounded like a buzzsaw with absolutely no low end. That wasn't what came out the speakers. When I tried Al Krow's Vanderkley, I did the same settings with the tweeter on full and it nearly took our heads off. Admittedly, there was still low end, but the treble was just as massively overpowering as the DI would have been. I'm quite torn with this. Plus at £1200 for a cab it makes it a distinctly difficult choice as they're all about the same price. Please, somebody say something definitive! 🤣 It sounds a bit like the tweeter dial wasn't set flat. It works in the opposite direction to that of a normal tweeter attenuator. I'd also hazard a guess that most super tweeters spike in their sensitive region whereas the crossover in the BT2 will probably endeavour t keep the spike out of the sound and thus it won't have that 'tear your ears off' quality. Just some possibilities but I can not answer for sure as I wasn't there. If I were I'd be able to give a definitive answer Ok, my answer? IEMs.. (That really doesn't help ha ha!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 And maybe stay away from the FRFR thread.. I'd love to plug straight in to an RCF NX45-a That'd be a bass combo on steroids I reckon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterMute Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said: Please, somebody say something definitive! 🤣 I'd really urge you to try the BT2 if you can, I know it's a ton of cash, but it's so far from the sound of the original designs now. If you can get down to Brighton, Alex will show you the whole range and make you some tea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, dood said: I'd love to plug straight in to an RCF NX45-a That'd be a bass combo on steroids I reckon... Nah, this thread is strictly for dinosaurs. 😛 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patch006 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 I've had most cab makes, BF sound great and are silly light. For me the berg I had just felt better quality and classer if you like and to my ears was the best cab I've ever had. I have now got 2x TKS 1126 great little cabs. Only ever use one though, Im always DI'd in to decent sound systems. I'm no bothered about having a huge stack that only ever acts as a very expensive monitor! Plus the fact that I'm extremely lazy and not famous enough for roadies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 hour ago, EBS_freak said: Nah, this thread is strictly for dinosaurs. 😛 Dinosaurs did do pretty well, lasted 180 MILLION years. They, however, obviously weren't that good at bass. Let's see if we last more than a fraction of that as a species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Just now, Al Krow said: Dinosaurs did do pretty well, lasted 180 MILLION years. They, however, obviously weren't that good at bass. Let's see if we last more than a fraction of that as a species. Well, I've just been weighing up a couple of Preamp/DI options for the mini board and enhance my FRFR goodness... ..whilst simultaneously submitting an offer on a GK 800RB on evilbay... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 hour ago, dood said: It sounds a bit like the tweeter dial wasn't set flat. It works in the opposite direction to that of a normal tweeter attenuator. I'd also hazard a guess that most super tweeters spike in their sensitive region whereas the crossover in the BT2 will probably endeavour t keep the spike out of the sound and thus it won't have that 'tear your ears off' quality. Just some possibilities but I can not answer for sure as I wasn't there. If I were I'd be able to give a definitive answer Ok, my answer? IEMs.. (That really doesn't help ha ha!) Sorry, I just reread this. I meant that the DI as it was fed into my Markbass cabs. The tweeters were on full blast and we're nowhere near as bright as Al Krows cab with the tweeter maxed and using the same settings. I didn't mean the Barefaced tweeter was harsh. It wasn't. Though, I was playing my Alembic through Si's rig. So possibly not a like for like test all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterMute Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said: Well, I've just been weighing up a couple of Preamp/DI options for the mini board and enhance my FRFR goodness... ..whilst simultaneously submitting an offer on a GK 800RB on evilbay... lol Ooooooo 800RB, that was an amp, used to run one bi-amped into an 8x10 and a 4x10.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, WinterMute said: Ooooooo 800RB, that was an amp, used to run one bi-amped into an 8x10 and a 4x10.... There's one local to me that's collection only, and I've put a cheeky low offer in. It would be a nice head to use with my BF Compact for recording 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afterimage Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Have a Bergantino HDN 2x12. Imported from Germany excellent sound But I do have it paired with the Bamp using its 2x12 profile Well pleased with the sound my other choice was going to to be the vandercleys 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorandelac Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Oh man, I have the same thing. I'm playing on Markbass for past 15-16 years, so decided to go to something better for my small gigs, and bought Barefaced Big Baby two. So now I'm was hooked up on Barefaced, then I got used Super Twelve T for my big gigs. Always on big gigs my roadie takes care of my amp and cab, but after 3 gigs, Super Twelwe T was already looking like it won't hold up for next 2-3 years. I know it didn't have that cover as they have now, it had that old one without the padding, just "cloth" like... so I sold it right away. My BB2 has a nice cover that I think can protect it from getting damaged. Now I'm on a lookout for same thing, Vanderkley, Bergs or Barefaced (BT2). alex said that they changed the covers, the handles, that they are much sturdy then ones before... but I really don't like getting stuff and selling stuff.... so no idea what to buy.... Only thing what I don't like about Bergs is that they are made in US... so if anything goes wrong.... And one more thing my guitar player plays his Marshall from beginning of 80's... still looks like brand new with only padded covers.... so.. wonder what you'll buy in the end @Wolverinebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Roadies will seriously damage any gear given time. If I was using roadies I would always flightcase my gear. I've never seen these guys look after anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorandelac Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, chris_b said: Roadies will seriously damage any gear given time. If I was using roadies I would always flightcase my gear. I've never seen these guys look after anything. I have that roadie for 5 years, he treats my equipment as same as I do... maybe even better... don't have so much experience with other roadies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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