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Jacob Collier Changing the rules of Music!!!


KingPrawn

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4 hours ago, spectoremg said:

I lasted 5 mins into the BBC4 show. Pretentious twoddle. And mate, instead of leaping between your keyboards for effect,  why not put your synth ON your piano?

And sorry, I'm not saying everyone should like the music, obviously not.....but calling it pretentious twoddle is like me saying the same thing about reading 5 mins of a quantum physics book.
Try lasting more than 5mins with your musical endeavours, try watching the whole show, even if you don't like it, you might learn something!

Si

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3 minutes ago, Sibob said:

Which is what the history of western music is based on so......

It actually makes me sad when a thread about an incredible talent (who is 23 years old for goodness sake, he was doing Berklee masterclasses at 20!) gets lambasted by people who:
A) Don't like Jazz
B) Watch 5 minutes of one program

If you don't like Jazz, don't comment unless you're actively appreciating the technical ability and hard work someone has put in. Letting people know you actively don't like the subject your being negative about doesn't really help the conversation. "God I hate driving......this <well spec'd, reasonably priced, popular> car is awful isn't it!".
If you do like Jazz, but don't like seeing how someone attempts to entertain a sold out Albert Hall audience, dig a little deeper:
 

 

 

These are bands that he has curated, who have come together to play his songs and arrangements, he's the band-leader. So yes, they are obviously contributing a lot, but they wouldn't be in that particular gig if it weren't for Jacob, he's creating jobs innit.

Si

Woah, chill out pill aisle 4. I actually like JC and my comment was a tongue in cheek nod to Ed Sheeran's lawsuits. I also spent last night watching JC's AH performance ... some bits for me are over produced... but that's kinda what's intriguing about it. Pushing the boundaries because he can. Personally, I'd rather hear him do that with popular songs so you have a baseline... than a complete random performance that is more difficult to get an access point into... because then I think you can truly appreciate what a music theory boss he is. These are once in a lifetime savant musicians. I appreciate that.

People like some stuff. People don't like some stuff. People will always have opinions that don't match yours. People will express it in different ways... and you'll never change that. So don't wind yourself up about it. If you want to make yourself angry, go and check out some of the Phil Minton stuff I posted... and then check out some the interesting discussion that it has produced. I don't think that myself and @leftybassman392 will ever appreciate that same style of music... but the discussion has been full of humour... and deliberately emotively provocative... but that's what's brought out some really interesting discussion.

It's no different to people liking The Smiths (I mean, what the actual f***) and Jaco.

 

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15 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Woah, chill out pill aisle 4. I actually like JC and my comment was a tongue in cheek nod to Ed Sheeran's lawsuits. I also spent last night watching JC's AH performance ... some bits for me are over produced... but that's kinda what's intriguing about it. Pushing the boundaries because he can. Personally, I'd rather hear him do that with popular songs so you have a baseline... than a complete random performance that is more difficult to get an access point into... because then I think you can truly appreciate what a music theory boss he is. These are once in a lifetime savant musicians. I appreciate that.

People like some stuff. People don't like some stuff. People will always have opinions that don't match yours. People will express it in different ways... and you'll never change that. So don't wind yourself up about it. If you want to make yourself angry, go and check out some of the Phil Minton stuff I posted... and then check out some the interesting discussion that it has produced. I don't think that myself and @leftybassman392 will ever appreciate that same style of music... but the discussion has been full of humour... and deliberately emotively provocative... but that's what's brought out some really interesting discussion.

It's no different to people liking The Smiths (I mean, what the actual f***) and Jaco.

 

To be fair, my only comment to you was about history of music being largely derivative, Sheeren isn't doing anything differently, Adam Neely did a fantastic video about it, well worth a watch.
I'm not angry, fully accept people have different opinions to me, certainly don't care if people like Jacob's (or any other) music.....but just think it's a shame when people comment on others hard work with incredibly reductionist comments after giving it very very little time to explore it.
 

I'm not angry.....just disappointed 🤣
Si

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This is the one that you're talking about, right?

With regards to disappointment. Yeah. That's the nature of the world. You only have 7 seconds to make an impression on somebody... whether it be a first meeting or whether it be listening to music. You know as well as I do, if a lot of the non commercial music that is discussed on basschat was on the radio, the average listener would switch channels within seconds. The thing is, we're not under any law that we must explore the output of what others do. If it doesn't resonate with you, you can move on... or choose to investigate further. Which is what I did when I started my Phil Minton thread. I still don't get it... but I understand more why some people may get it... but it's also opened up some other avenues of music that I'm currently exploring. Some I shall no doubt last more than 7 seconds... some may actually spark some interest.

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38 minutes ago, Sibob said:

Which is what the history of western music is based on so......

It actually makes me sad when a thread about an incredible talent (who is 23 years old for goodness sake, he was doing Berklee masterclasses at 20!) gets lambasted by people who:
A) Don't like Jazz
B) Watch 5 minutes of one program

If you don't like Jazz, don't comment unless you're actively appreciating the technical ability and hard work someone has put in. Letting people know you actively don't like the subject your being negative about doesn't really help the conversation. "God I hate driving......this <well spec'd, reasonably priced, popular> car is awful isn't it!".
If you do like Jazz, but don't like seeing how someone attempts to entertain a sold out Albert Hall audience, dig a little deeper:
 

 

 

These are bands that he has curated, who have come together to play his songs and arrangements, he's the band-leader. So yes, they are obviously contributing a lot, but they wouldn't be in that particular gig if it weren't for Jacob, he's creating jobs innit.

Si

well fortunately we live in a country where we all have a right to free speech.. The thread title didn't hint it was about jazz.  Speaking for myself I said the lad was extremely talented but that I didn't like the jazzy stuff the clips showed. Maybe he plays other styles, I don't know. Anyway there's loads of people whose talents I can appreciate objectively but it's harder to be objective about output as that's all down to taste.

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1 hour ago, Chris2112 said:

Steve Vai was raving about this guy a little while ago but that whole smooth jazz thing does nothing for me. It sounds pretty cheesy and whilst the lad has talent, I'm not hearing great music. Maybe in time he'll produce something with some edge. 

Ah, Steve Vai, another guy with abundant technical skills but to my ears seems to come up short when it comes to decent tunage

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10 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

possibly and several up from The Stone Roses, while we're dissin 80s-90s Manchester guitar bands

Frankly, they were all godawful. The first time I ever heard of The Smiths was when Marilyn Manson was talking about how much he hated them in 'the long hard road out of hell'. He holds a special contempt for Smiths fans, it would seem. 

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3 hours ago, spectoremg said:

I see The Opinion Police are back in force. 

Nope, you can have whatever opinion you want, I was simply giving my opinion that I consider it lazy when someone calls something 'twoddle', when that thing is objectively only possible through years of hard work and great skill & dedication, especially when that person invested 5 mins of a 2 hour performance.
I shouldn't think you care either, so we're both cool :)

Si

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24 minutes ago, Sibob said:

Nope, you can have whatever opinion you want, I was simply giving my opinion that I consider it lazy when someone calls something 'twoddle', when that thing is objectively only possible through years of hard work and great skill & dedication, especially when that person invested 5 mins of a 2 hour performance.
I shouldn't think you care either, so we're both cool :)

Si

But you're with me in the fact that it takes just 7 seconds to appreciate how bad The Smiths are...?

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I'm not sure the bombastic thread title helps, really...while I'm sure he's terribly, terribly clever, I haven't heard (and I've given it more than five minutes) a rearrangement of a good song that's improved it at all. It's very niche, and in those terms people who like that sort of thing will like it. Didn't work for me, and I don't get it in a similar way to anyone who doesn't get the Stone Roses or The Smiths* doesn't get them, either.

Those trousers in the first clip really are dreadful, though...and without wanting to reduce things even further into the realms of shallow waters, his resemblance to a very young, very pleased Keanu Reeves unsettled me, too... 😕😁

 

* And I note in between the protests of judgement, there's plenty of judgement of other musicians (very much The Usual Suspects) and their output.

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1 hour ago, Muzz said:

Those trousers in the first clip really are dreadful, though...and without wanting to reduce things even further into the realms of shallow waters, his resemblance to a very young, very pleased Ed Miliband unsettled me, too... 😕😁

 

Fixed!

 

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2 hours ago, Muzz said:

* And I note in between the protests of judgement, there's plenty of judgement of other musicians (very much The Usual Suspects) and their output.

Aw. Im sure Morrissey and his bank account aren't going to lose any sleep.

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It's obvious the boy's very talented. But also quite staid, despite wishing to appear the opposite.

He's trying very hard to be different, but only manages to be a tiny bit different. His piano playing, while very good, is not in the same league as other precocious talents such as Hiromi Uehara either in melody, rhythm or inventiveness. Did anybody say Bobby Crush? 😁 Still, I'd much rather him than much wetter dinner jazz, or The Smiths!

 

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