Ghost_Bass Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Hi everybody. I'm looking for some comments on choosing a new PSU for my pedalboard. I've been using a daisy-chain type 3A PSU that i bought from "effectpowersupplies.co.uk" almost 10 years ago and it still works fine but i'm up to 6 pedals now and i'm starting to get noise from lack of individual isolation in the outputs. My pedalboard is a Harley Benton, copy of a Pedaltrain and has space and fittings underneath for a PSU. It's this one: And here's a pic of the real thing: I've been looking in Thomann (it's better for me as i can get a joint order with the rest of the band and get free shipping) and i'm between these two PSU's: https://www.thomann.de/pt/harley_benton_powerplant_flex.htm : https://www.thomann.de/pt/harley_benton_powerplant_iso_1_pro.htm : I'm leaning for the second one, the ISO-1 as it clearly states that all outputs are isolated, not sure about the first one, no info on that. The powerplant Flex seems to have a better layout to link the cables though. So, what would the BC community choose? What are your thoughts about them? Does anybody has either of these and can make a small review? I'm also open to other sugestions that would fit in the pedalboard and won't cost much more than the cheapest pedal in that board Thanks for looking Marco Edited June 20, 2018 by Ghost_Bass spelling, and more mistakes still to find 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 If I had to guess I'd say that neither of those are "Galvanically Isolated" (well maybe one of the outputs on the second one but not all). For minimum power / ground noise and ground loop susceptibility you need separate grounds. Lots of supplies that state "isolated" just really mean that the outputs are separately regulated / protected - eg you could shortt one out and it wouldn't damage the other outputs - but they are on the same ground. But you can probably get an answer direct from Thomman. They were helpful when I enquired whether this was the case with the PowerPlant Junior vs Powerplant. The 'Junior' is, as stated "Galvanically Isolated" (also means can 'stack voltages to give 18V using two outputs) whilst the Powerplant is not. Sounds wrong I know. They were able to confirm this prior to purchase. I do realise the Junior is likely too small too meet all your requirents in one unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Not seen that 2nd one before, looks like a winner if you only need 9V. If you need 12V/18V with isolated outputs though, Cioks DC5, Truetone CS6 or Strymon Zuma R300 are the only ones I know of that would fit snug under that board. BTW I have gone down this road before, stepping up to an isolated supply only to find it did not cure my noise issues whatsoever. Further testing showed the noise was due to my flat EBS patch cables, looks like you have a few of those too! To confirm it is your supply, if you have a spare 9V supply around, try substituting that in place of the daisy chain connection for each pedal in turn. If the noise decreases then you have found a pedal that prefers isolated power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 I started having noise issues rescently, never had them before. First thing i found that reduced a lot of noise was to replace my George L's for the EBS ones, now i'm using EBS in all patches but @dannybuoy's comment has got me rethinking it. I've tried separating the pedals trough several PSU's that i have and the noise goes away. That's the main reason i was considering getting a new isolated PSU. Like i've stated i've been using the same PSU for the past 10 years so i don't know what's new on the market these days. I've looked at the CIOKS DC5 but i would have to daisychain two pedals in order to feed my board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 The HB ISO-1 looks perfect for my board, it has the size, the outputs, all my pedals run at 9V neg. center but need to check if it's really isolated like @rmorris pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 Looks like a no go at the ISO-1 then... here's one of the reviews in Thomann's site: Quote It's not isolated! vitaliistep, 19.03.2018 Ok, I was very interested in this item, because the price is very attractive. I compared it to my MXR ISO-Brick and its build quality, materials, components, soldering, wires are even better than in MXR, but if we are talking about it as a power supply, it's just a noisy piece of power I tested it with several analogue and digital pedals (Bogner, Empress, Tech21, Way Huge, TC...) and there are always some hum, buzzing and clicks. MXR ISO-Brick and separate Line6 power supplies are dead quite. So there is unfortunately no miracle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 51 minutes ago, Ghost_Bass said: I started having noise issues rescently, never had them before. First thing i found that reduced a lot of noise was to replace my George L's for the EBS ones, now i'm using EBS in all patches but @dannybuoy's comment has got me rethinking it. I've tried separating the pedals trough several PSU's that i have and the noise goes away. That's the main reason i was considering getting a new isolated PSU. Like i've stated i've been using the same PSU for the past 10 years so i don't know what's new on the market these days. I've looked at the CIOKS DC5 but i would have to daisychain two pedals in order to feed my board. I went back to George Ls! If you have a true bypass looper, try putting patch cables in it to see if any are prone to noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, dannybuoy said: I went back to George Ls! If you have a true bypass looper, try putting patch cables in it to see if any are prone to noise. I AB'd the cables. Even some cheap warwick patch cables were making less noise than the George L's. Bought the EBS ones due to their slim design that allows me to fit all 6 pedals in that board and haven't noticed noise when powering with individual PSU's but i'll have another try to see if that's really true. I must admit i was sceptical of such small and thin cables, they don't have a big core area but being EBS it gave me some confidence to try. Were you using any 18V or big amp (+300mA) pedals with those patches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I was using a mixture of stuff at the time. But when I came to test cables, I just put my bass on a stand, then cable straight into a Thumpinator to serve as a buffer, then into a true bypass box into a PJB Bighead headphone amp. This let me switch any patch cable in and out of the chain, and the worst were EBS, Warwick and Bespeco, all of which added significant hiss once in the chain. All had plastic jacks, which is where I suspect the lack of shielding comes into play - anything with a metal jack was fine and made no noticeable difference in noise or tone, including George Ls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 I've sent a mail to Thomann and got a reply: Quote Hello I'm interested in this PSU ( https://www.thomann.de/pt/harley_benton_powerplant_iso_1_pro.htm ) but i have a question for you regarding the stated isolated outputs. Are they really isolated, this is, are the grounds individually isolated for each output or are they only separetly regulated/protected in case of short-circuits? If this is not really isolated can you recomend me an isolated PSU in your stock that can power 6+ pedals at 9V each (center neg.) without noises? Thank you Marco Correia - Portugal Quote Dear Mr Correia, no, this is not the case. You have really completely isolated outputs on these power supplies for example: https://www.thomann.de/de/cioks_dc10.htm https://www.thomann.de/de/truetone_1_spot_pro_cs12.htm Kind regards Alfred Reuter I'm very happy for this type of communication from them, a fast reply without any marketing BS. It's just a shame that both suggestions from them cost close to 200€, so one more boutique pedal in that board when we look at it. I'll take a look at the smaller CIOKS offerings to see if any has enough outputs for my board, the DC5 would be perfect if it had just one more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Just another question, if i was to choose the Powerplant Jr, wich is galvanically isolated, wich two pedals should i get less noise sharing the same output? I'm guessing the tuner is one of them and will be turned off when playing and the Compressor should be avoided as it's allways on. All other pedals are used very little appart from the GR wich gets most use. Only pedal combo i'm using ATM is octave in to wah in a bridge of one song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 There's this one: https://www.thomann.de/pt/truetone_1_spot_pro_cs6.htm I've been on their site and they say it's isolated like the bigger CS7 and CS12 but in a low profile that'll fit underneath a Pedaltrain. It has 6 outs at 2x500mA 2x100mA and 2x200mA, 4 of them are switchable between 9 or 12V. looks like a winner at 139€. Any comments? this thread is starting to look like a monologue appart from the precious help from a couple of BC'ers. I'll back off on the posts for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) The Trutones kick butt. Mainly because you can pretty much ignore the mA labels and run silly amounts of each socket as long as you don't exceed the total for the brick. However the Strymon looks very good also with way more juice on tap - 5x 500mA outputs: https://www.strymon.net/products/zuma-r300/ Don't forget you can run splitters and daisies off these outputs to get even more mileage out of them. You don't need to run EVERY pedal isolated. I have 2x 3-way daisies and a splitter all hanging off my DC5! Hotrox stock all the spares for Cioks too. Edited June 21, 2018 by dannybuoy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 20 hours ago, dannybuoy said: The Trutones kick butt. Mainly because you can pretty much ignore the mA labels and run silly amounts of each socket as long as you don't exceed the total for the brick. However the Strymon looks very good also with way more juice on tap - 5x 500mA outputs: https://www.strymon.net/products/zuma-r300/ Don't forget you can run splitters and daisies off these outputs to get even more mileage out of them. You don't need to run EVERY pedal isolated. I have 2x 3-way daisies and a splitter all hanging off my DC5! Hotrox stock all the spares for Cioks too. Thanks for the tip. Didn't know about Strymon, they do look very cool and 500mA per out is excelent. I've seen that they also have a smaller and cheaper 5 way PSU: https://www.thomann.de/pt/strymon_ojai.htm it's just 3mm taller than the Zuma and 30€ cheaper. But the Truetone is still in the lead, i don't have high current pedals in my board, can't say for sure but they all must be between 50 and 100 mA. Keep those ideas comming, there must be many like me that are unaware of the offerings of real isolated PSUs for our boards. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 There are TONS of other isolated options, but not any I'm aware of other than the ones I mentioned that will fit under a PT Nano/Metro. Until very recently, Cioks DC5 was your only option, the Strymon and Truetone models are pretty new, as is that Harley Benton by the looks of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 Yep, manufacturers are paying attention to what players are looking for. Lot's of people using PT and looking for small footprints. Bar/pub stage area is premium in most places. I'm guessing there are more options comming up in the future smaller, with more outputs and more affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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