Dad3353 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, Happy Jack said: Trump has, at most, another three years... ... to be succeeded by another comic-book character with an even worse outlook..? 'Not possible..!' I hear the cry go up. That's what I thought when the present incumbent was bidding for the job, and we know how that turned out..! Be careful of what one wishes for; there's an awful lot of folks with strange views over there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, chris_b said: The last 2 Gibson playing guitarists I was in a band with both stooped playing Gibson's several years ago. One bought a Burny and the other an Orville. These guys would rather have been playing Gibson's but they are not made as well as the competition it seems. What's interesting is that Orville was an official Gibson brand - high-end Epiphones, if you like. Seems a lot of people don't associate Gibson & Orville. As far as I know Orvilles stopped production in the late 90s & I guess Gibson attempted to fill that hole in their range with "affordable" USA Gibsons. Which, as I understand it, are a bit rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 George W got in by accident. After screwing up so much and taking the country into an unnecessary war and getting US soldiers needlessly killed you'd have thought the US citizens would have turned around and said no more. But they didn't. . . they bloody well voted the idiot back in! Trump is a far more dangerous character because he is totally uncontrollable and seems to have no idea what effect his words have on other, equally dangerous, leaders. I can understand why he got in this time, but he's a bully, egomaniac and unconcerned by any view point other than his own. That's why he likes Putin so much. Two sides of the same thuggish coin. Trump for a second term would indicate the American people really have no idea what is the best for them. A trade deal with Trump? That is the really frightening thing. For anyone who thinks the EU exerted too much control over us, wait till the details of the UK/US trade deal emerge. We are going to be royally screwed and with no way out. Oh, and Gibson are in such a bad shape because they are badly managed and charge top prices for poorly made instruments. Talkbass have had ex Gibson employees posting that one reason for the bad QC was they were on a target of instruments to be completed each day. The target was way beyond what could be achieved in the time so the manufacturing process was rushed, corners were cut and inspections were derisory. Gibson's did make instruments that had a good reputation, they don't any more. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, Bassassin said: What's interesting is that Orville was an official Gibson brand - high-end Epiphones, if you like. Seems a lot of people don't associate Gibson & Orville. I believe Orville started first and were taken over by Gibson but not managed by them. Japanese instruments made for the home market seem to be superior in many respects. Didn't Fender try to stop Japanese made Fenders being imported into the US because they were better made than the US made ones? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikkers Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 Bad reviews get more attention than good reviews. And people have the tendency to parrot opinions. This too can harm reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rikkers said: Bad reviews get more attention than good reviews. And people have the tendency to parrot opinions. This too can harm reputation. They are in Chapter 11. This far more serious that a few bad reviews!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I've always wanted a Gibson Les Paul but the models I like seem to be well overpriced. I own an Epiphone made in Korean factory and can't fault it. I think the issue is that there are competitive priced models available on the market like Harley Benton and Chinese fakes like Chibson. Also a cheap bad playing and bad sounding guitar can be moded saving hundreds of pounds. Often the guitar reviewed on You Tube are heavily processed. Who can justify spending thousands on a Gibson if for the same money you could get a guitar, laptop, DAW, software and speakers/ headphones and you're set up. For a live situation a full guitar gig gear without draining your bank account. Nevertheless I'd like a flame top G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dad3353 said: ... to be succeeded by another comic-book character with an even worse outlook..? 'Not possible..!' I hear the cry go up. That's what I thought when the present incumbent was bidding for the job, and we know how that turned out..! Be careful of what one wishes for; there's an awful lot of folks with strange views over there... As a matter of fact I recall Kanye West was saying he would run for office. How impossible would that be? Not much given what's been happening to pave the way. Scary Link Edited June 10, 2018 by SpondonBassed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I wouldn’t even be surprised if Homer Simpson ran based on recent events. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, chris_b said: I believe Orville started first and were taken over by Gibson but not managed by them. Japanese instruments made for the home market seem to be superior in many respects. Didn't Fender try to stop Japanese made Fenders being imported into the US because they were better made than the US made ones? Don't know a lot about Orville, (or Gibson, for that matter) so I did a bit of reading! Orville was a Japan-market brand & seemingly a collaboration between Gibson & Yamano Gakki (distributor/retailer) from the off. So pretty much the same deal as Fender Japan, which was set up between Fender & Kanda Shokai. Didn't know Orville was Japan-only, although plenty of Japanese domestic-brand isntruments end up being unofficially exported - Greco being a good example. Regarding Fender Japan, I *think* Squiers were always intended for export while initially MIJ Fenders were home-market only. I also think I'm correct that JV Squiers & Fenders were the same apart from the branding - the earliest Squiers having the big Fender/small Squier logo to differentiate them from home-market Fender JVs. Export MIJ Fenders might've started when Fender changed ownership in the mid 80s but I'm not certain. This is both off-topic & dull as ditchwater so I'll STFU now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 3 hours ago, drTStingray said: There are lots of reasons not to buy a Gibson in recent years but still lots of reason to buy one - in particular if you want to sound like Paul Kossoff or any number of famous guitarists over the last 50+ years then a Les Paul, 335 and others are what you need - and I believe there'll always be people who want them. The basses have a similar following for reason like Andy Fraser and others. Those who play All Right Now using the thinner sounding Fender instruments have a parallel with thin, soprano level vocals emulating Paul Rogers or Rod Stewart to me. Haven't got the depth of the original. Luckily there are other types of guitars than either gibsons or fenders, several of them being able to do pretty good impressions of any sounds without too much trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) Frankly, I scent more than a whiff of wishful Trump Derangment Syndrome here. Let's face it: Gibson have been splashing cash on useless sideline companies like a drunken sailor on a toot and industriously f**king themselves up the ar5e with a decade's worth of QC issues under a deranged and hated CEO whose company enjoys quite the most appalling employee ratings on Glassdoor Gibson have moreover devalued their brand with a succession of unlovable cheapies, a gimcrack quality mid-range, $5000-10,000 custom shop jobs with hideous flaws and a succession of 'innovative' models that no one would touch with a sh!tty stick unless they got them off Amazon for £300. Gibson even managed to screw the pooch with an entire frigging model range year (2015). They've back-stabbed their distributors in the UK, held retailers to ransom with ludicrously onerous conditions and jacked their prices up like Ebenezer Scrooge on crystal meth. This year Gibson didn't even go to NAMM but trundled off to CCCES (Crappy Chinese Consumer Electronics Show) to boost Henry's prestigious - er - Philips brand and some of the other unloved, unwanted names he's picked up over the years like Wurlitzer jukeboxes, a product for which there is obviously limitless demand in an age of digital streaming. Hank's even managed to derail one of the only two bits of Gibson that are still successful (Acoustics and Semis) when he announced the sudden relocation of the Memphis plant a few months ago. When challenged about this litany of failure the Great Pumpkin himself blamed musical instrument retailers for not being laid out more like Apple shops and Gibson's core customer base for being ungrateful fanboi nostalgists who really should get more up to date. But according to some, this vortex of madness, hubris and commercial disaster must clearly be eclipsed by the possibility that higher import tariffs might be applied to export Gibsons and that - even if they aren't - Gibson's sales might be dented because some people might now stop buying Gibson's as a 'protest' against Trump and his trade wars. When Henry actually came out for the populist right freakin' Tea Party a few years ago? But maybe that doesn't count. Oh, spare me. For myself, I think Trump's a giant bell-end but the suggestion that the Orange One may ultimately be responsible for Gibson's demise is sufficiently wide of the mark as to suggest that some people know so little whereof they speak that they assume they can build some sort of ramshackle political debate atop the corpse of a guitar company which has been decaying from the inside for 15 years. In short, there are plenty of places to slag Trump off on the webz - I go there myself sometimes - but I'd rather prefer it if people didn't come hawking politically motivated utter bollocks round here when there's a better and far more accurate truth about Gibson's failure to be debated. That's not too much to ask is it? Edited June 11, 2018 by skankdelvar Edit for: speling 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 2 hours ago, SH73 said: I've always wanted a Gibson Les Paul but the models I like seem to be well overpriced. I own an Epiphone made in Korean factory and can't fault it. I think the issue is that there are competitive priced models available on the market like Harley Benton and Chinese fakes like Chibson. Also a cheap bad playing and bad sounding guitar can be moded saving hundreds of pounds. Often the guitar reviewed on You Tube are heavily processed. Who can justify spending thousands on a Gibson if for the same money you could get a guitar, laptop, DAW, software and speakers/ headphones and you're set up. For a live situation a full guitar gig gear without draining your bank account. Nevertheless I'd like a flame top G. Surely the same can be said for all guitar and bass brands, if that is really how you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 So if Gibson had done a better job of things they could be like Fender and only $100 million dollars in debt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 It fills my heart with glee to see that “bollocks” gets through the profanity filter. As you were... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 No one has suggested that the Commander in Chief has caused Gibson's woes, the OP and others simply suggesting that his ongoing antics may not be any help in getting them back on their feet, to sell more guitars, or be profitable - or Fender or any other US industry to be profitable for that matter!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, CameronJ said: It fills my heart with glee to see that “bollocks” gets through the profanity filter. As you were... I think bastard does too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, drTStingray said: No one has suggested that the Commander in Chief has caused Gibson's woes, the OP and others simply suggesting that his ongoing antics may not be any help in getting them back on their feet, to sell more guitars, or be profitable - or Fender or any other US industry to be profitable for that matter!! The issue of Trump's trade wars is about as relevant to Gibson's current position as one blow-fly on a dying badger that's been hit by a truck. The blowfly might lessen the likelihood of the badger getting back on its feet but to such a marginally microscopic degree as not to matter. One might just as meaningfully suggest that the unconfirmed possibility of increased tolls on the interstate highways might not help Gibson back on their feet. Or the unconfirmed possibility of a lack of bog roll in the Gibson factory karzi might 'impact workforce morale'. Frankly, it won't make a toss of difference to Gibson guitars if there's a trade war because the problems they face are widespread, deep-seated and decades-old and they'll have to prise the company from Hank's cold, dead fingers. Edited June 10, 2018 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) Interesting viewpoint Skankdelvar - however I suspect alienation of your export market or having a trade war will not assist them - sounds like the American manufacturers can use all the help they can get - the fact they all use off-shore or even Mexican manufacture suggests they will all be hit one way or another by current events. And most of us here buy American guitars (well maybe not so many buy new ones - maybe that's part of the guitar industry's problem)!! Edited June 10, 2018 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, drTStingray said: Interesting viewpoint Skankdelvar - however I suspect alienation of your export market or having a trade war will not assist them - sounds like the American manufacturers can use all the help they can get - the fact they all use off-shore or even Mexican manufacture suggests they will all be hit one way or another by current events. And most of us here buy American guitars (well maybe not so many buy new ones - maybe that's part of the guitar industry's problem)!! For myself, I estimate that no more than 14 individuals may be so alienated by a US / Europe trade war as to exclaim 'I desperately want a new Les Paul but I'm never going to buy one until the 25% US tariff on European steel imports is lifted and Trump's been impeached for crimes against tanning products' By contrast,should there be retributive EU tariffs against US guitars many, many people might indeed say 'Crikey, new Gibson's are well pricey since all this shɩt kicked off but I couldn't really afford one anyway and, besides, they're shonky out of the box. Best to buy a secondhand one that's been sorted'. You're right that the Mexican thing could be an issue Edited June 10, 2018 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikkers Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, skankdelvar said: For myself, I estimate that no more than 14 individuals may be so alienated by a US / Europe trade war as to exclaim 'I desperately want a new Les Paul but I'm never going to buy one until the 25% US tariff on European steel imports is lifted and Trump's been impeached for crimes against tanning products' My point is that this trade war will hurt the American economy. People who are jobless have other priorities.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodiakblair Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 @Rikkers Why are you concerned about the American economy ? Doubt they lose any sleep over your's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Rikkers said: My point is that this trade war will hurt the American economy. People who are jobless have other priorities.. So what's that specifically got to do with Gibson's well-known pre-existing problems? If you want (as you clearly do) to make the general point that 'this trade war will hurt the American economy' and you want to fret about the jobless then - rather than wasting time wrapping it all up in a Gibson-shaped box - why not toddle over to OT and start a thread that directly addresses your concerns? Edited June 10, 2018 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikkers Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, kodiakblair said: @Rikkers Why are you concerned about the American economy ? Doubt they lose any sleep over your's. All economies are interconnected. When the American economy is free falling it will draw the rest into the next crisis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikkers Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, skankdelvar said: So what's that specifically got to do with Gibson's well-known pre-existing problems? Not directly, no. But it can be the nail in it's coffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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