Rock music peaked in 1971

[vantagepointrocks]

40 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

If it's anything like the clips on t'Tube, they're Good Stuff. I, too, would like to reduce your stocks, if you'd like to quote me for expedition to France, please..?
Maybe we should start a whole 'Unsung Unsold Heroes' thread, for liquidating stuff like this..? 

You can purchase them from, https://vantagepointrocks.bandcamp.com/merch getting the price of CDs is fine, I don’t add on anything for shipping, just means I get a bit more money from a local sale than a foreign one. But that is fine, just happy to get rid of any at the moment – didn’t do a physical release of our latest album due to still having lots of previous in boxes.

[BigRedX]

30 minutes ago, vantagepointrocks said:

... didn’t do a physical release of our latest album due to still having lots of previous in boxes.

And how is that working out for you in terms of sales?

My experience selling records and CDs of the various bands I've been in is that we've made back a bigger proportion of the money we've spent when we have actual physical product then when it's simply downloads and streaming. Add to this the fact that almost no-one buys downloads anymore and the revenue from streaming is negligible for bands whose following is just a few hundreds rather than tens of thousands.

And as a punter, if I've enjoyed your band, and I still have some cash in my pocket at the end of the night there is a very good chance that I'll buy a copy of your record or CD if you have one available. Buy a download the following day even if I've remembered who you are and where to get it from? No where near as likely. Listen to you on Spotify? Probably not more than once.

So thats somewhere between £5 and £20 depending on the format and what the band have decided to charge for an album as opposed to 0.45 ¢ (which is roughly what I get for each Spotify track streamed). Put another way a listener what have to stream a 10 track album in its entirety 15 times for the band to get the same revenue as they would for a single £5 CD album sale.

Edited June 1, 2018 by BigRedX

[Happy Jack]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

And as a punter, if I've enjoyed your band, and I still have some cash in my pocket at the end of the night there is a very good chance that I'll buy a copy of your record or CD if you have one available.

Yup, that's how I feel.

The chances that I'll carefully note the name of the band, then get up the next morning, search for the website, find the download section, and download the music ... negligible.

If there's a pile of CDs at the back of the room though,

 

[Skybone]

I would say that 1976 was one of the finest years for rock music...

Black Sabbath: Technical Ecstasy

Thin Lizzy: Jailbreak

Thin Lizzy: Johnny the Fox

Rainbow: Rising

Rush: 2112

Rush: All the World's A Stage

AC/DC: High Voltage

AC/DC: Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap

Motorhead: On Parole

Peter Frampton: Frampton Comes Alive

David Bowie: Station to Station

Status Quo: Blue for You

Led Zeppelin: Presence

Led Zeppelin: The Song Remains the Same

Ramones: Ramones

Jethro Tull: Too Old to Rock'n'Roll: Too Young to Die!

Parliament: The Clones of Dr. Funkenstein

Hawkwind: Astounding Sounds, Amazing Music

Funkadelic: Hardcore Jollies

ZZ Top: Tejas

Blondie: Blondie

 

Amongst all the others released that year.

[Passinwind]

18 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Roger Daltry thinks rock might have peaked with The Who’s fifth album "Who’s Next" in 1971. “Pete [Townshend] was so far ahead of his time, people are still catching up.”

If 1971 was the year when things started going down hill for rock music then that means that there were more great bands playing and great albums written before 1971 than after.

Do you agree with him?

I do think that the Who peaked then in many ways. I also feel that many rock bands peak on their second or third albums, give or take. FWIW, I was 18 years old in 1971 and by 1974 I had pretty much lost interest in rock music. That interest has returned and then ebbed and waned over the years many times, but for me Who's Next is not something I've listened to or thought about for quite a few years.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Passinwind

[Al Krow]

33 minutes ago, Skybone said:

I would say that 1976 was one of the finest years for rock music...

Great album list! Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow was the first 'major' gig I ever went to...but I think that was a few year's later in 1981.

I would have included these three from 1976 as well:

Queen: A Day at the Races

Eagles**: Hotel California (18th best selling album of all time).

Jean Michelle Jarre: Oxygene

**The 2nd best selling album of all time was actually their 'Greatest Hits 1971 to 1975', which as it happens was also released in 1976...

Edited June 1, 2018 by Al Krow

[spongebob]

It may not have peaked in '71, but there's no doubt that it fell flat not too long afterwards.

The '76 list itself makes a good point - that many albums, of quality, in a year? I personally couldn't fill a list that long from the last 20, even 30!

Good list of albums released across that whole year here - 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_in_music#Albums_released

Some super soul in there too....and Jaco's debut!  Had I not been 2 years old, I would have been seriously broke every month!

I don't think it's just rock. Take most years up to the early 80's, and you'll find a treasure of rock, soul, jazz.

Maybe things come in waves. There was some great American 'alternative' stuff that came up in the 80's, which led in to the 90's, but since then, most rock music has left me cold. 

 

 

[mikel]

3 hours ago, Meddle said:

John Wetton. A far more musically talented bassist with a far better ear and approach to the instrument. Entwistle was loud and fast, and a consistent over-player. Great for getting into bass, but there isn't exactly a lot of practical bass skill to be learned from working out Entwistle's six or so stock licks and phrases. 

Well, possibly. The way I see it the Who did things differently to the mainstream at the time. Pete mainly held down the rhythm, John was playing lead/melody, and Moonie either followed the vocals or played like an orchestral percussionist.

[visog]

2 hours ago, Skybone said:

I would say that 1976 was one of the finest years for rock music...

Black Sabbath: Technical Ecstasy

Thin Lizzy: Jailbreak

Thin Lizzy: Johnny the Fox

Rainbow: Rising

Rush: 2112

Rush: All the World's A Stage

AC/DC: High Voltage

AC/DC: Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap

Motorhead: On Parole

Peter Frampton: Frampton Comes Alive

David Bowie: Station to Station

Status Quo: Blue for You

Led Zeppelin: Presence

Led Zeppelin: The Song Remains the Same

Ramones: Ramones

Jethro Tull: Too Old to Rock'n'Roll: Too Young to Die!

Parliament: The Clones of Dr. Funkenstein

Hawkwind: Astounding Sounds, Amazing Music

Funkadelic: Hardcore Jollies

ZZ Top: Tejas

Blondie: Blondie

 

Amongst all the others released that year.

Pretty much none of those are 'Rock' as per the OP or they're just bad... Punk is not rock - sorry. Borrowed the motifs, had the attitude but no - something else entirely.  Heavy Metal definitely isn't. Peter Frampton? Are you mad? Are people being deliberately ignorant on this thread.

[EssentialTension]

22 minutes ago, visog said:

Pretty much none of those are 'Rock' as per the OP or they're just bad... Punk is not rock - sorry. Borrowed the motifs, had the attitude but no - something else entirely.  Heavy Metal definitely isn't. Peter Frampton? Are you mad? Are people being deliberately ignorant on this thread.

I have some sympathy becasue I'd like to think I rarely if ever listen to 'rock' but four of that list I would listen to thinking it not to be 'rock'.

'Rock' is pretty much a contested yet meaningless concept until someone defines or explains what they mean by 'rock'.

And then one finds that the definition or explanation given includes examples which one feels have very little to do with 'rock'.

Edited June 1, 2018 by EssentialTension

[mikel]

2 hours ago, Passinwind said:

I do think that the Who peaked then in many ways. I also feel that many rock bands peak on their second or third albums, give or take. FWIW, I was 18 years old in 1971 and by 1974 I had pretty much lost interest in rock music. That interest has returned and then ebbed and waned over the years many times, but for me Who's Next is not something I've listened to or thought about for quite a few years.

I have a rule, a tenuous one. The third album of most bands is the peak, its downhill after that. Some exceptions, but not many. The Beatles bucked that trend but they were unique anyway.

[mikel]

1 minute ago, EssentialTension said:

I have some sympathy becasue I'd like to think I rarely if ever listen to 'rock' but four of that list I would listen to thinking it not to be 'rock'.

'Rock' is pretty much a contested yet meaningless concept until someone defines or explains what they mean by 'rock'.

And then one finds that the definition or explanation given includes examples which one feels have very little to do with 'rock'.

Rock is like the term "Rock and Roll" It embraces lots of sub genres, also a bit like Jazz.  Folk rock, jazz rock, prog rock, punk rock, etc. Its all rock and roll.

[visog]

Christ you guys are going to struggle if we have an 'R&B' thread.

[EssentialTension]

4 minutes ago, visog said:

Christ you guys are going to struggle if we have an 'R&B' thread.

Correct.

Edited June 1, 2018 by EssentialTension
Too many r's

[tb4sbp]

I do not think rock died in 1971

Great bands like Thin Lizzy, AC/DC or Aerosmith were just starting (Aerosmith is still going and with the original members)

Out of all the genres of music I think rock has the most stubborn (sometimes in a good way) fans

Some feel that a certain time period is "the best" or after a particular number of albums a band is washed up

I find all kinds of music has its ups and downs

Even the record Led Zeppelin 3 was announced as the bands last album and they were finished in the eyes of the press and were in no way done as we all know

Throughout 'Rock' there has been one constant that has kept it going and influencing the next generation and that has been the 'guitar hero'

Whether it be a bass or (forgive me) a guitar someone needs to hold that torch for the group coming up to continue with

Rock dies if there are no carriers from one generation to the next

Until then rock will never die

And I think that Phil Lynott, Geddy Lee, Tom Hamilton and many more have carried that torch and inspired others to keep playing rock music

[skankdelvar]

Perhaps Mr Daltrey has been reading David Hepworth's book 1971 - Never a Dull Moment which (surprise) asserts that 1971 was the greatest year for rock music. Mr Hepworth's core contention is that  '1971 saw the release of more monumental albums than any year before or since' and when one scrutinises the list of albums (and singles) released that year it's difficult to disagree with him. 

Clearly, this doesn't mean that no significant albums were released in other years. IMO, 1969 was a pretty good year. Jon Savage makes a persuasive case for 1966 as being a pivotal year for pop music.

Perhaps one might compromise and say that 1965-1977 were the golden years of rock music as an un-ironic, non-self-referential cultural force. Before then it was all Larry Parnes showbiz pop and thereafter it was downhill into re-cycled posturing for cash with some good music thrown in.

Edited June 1, 2018 by skankdelvar

[visog]

Everyone - let's not confuse 'Rock' with 'good' music. Plenty of good music post-71 but not necessarily Daltrey's' Rock' which will be a pretty narrow and and closed term relating to Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Elvis et al.

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, visog said:

Everyone - let's not confuse 'Rock' with 'good' music. Plenty of good music post-71 but not necessarily Daltrey's' Rock' which will be a pretty narrow and and closed term relating to Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Elvis et al.

Surely that is not correct?

The artists you are referring to are classic 50s / 60s "rock'n'roll" and are not usually considered to be the (generally) heavier and typically guitar based "rock" bands which came to the fore in the mid late sixties and have stayed with us ever since.

The way I see it:

Chuck Berry = rock'n'roll

Jimi Hendrix = rock

Remember Daltrey is making his comment in May 2018, not in 1971.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Al Krow

[TrevorR]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

Perhaps Mr Daltrey has been reading David Hepworth's book 1971 - Never a Dull Moment which (surprise) asserts that 1971 was the greatest year for rock music. Mr Hepworth's core contention is that  '1971 saw the release of more monumental albums than any year before or since' and when one scrutinises the list of albums (and singles) released that year it's difficult to disagree with him. 

Clearly, this doesn't mean that no significant albums were released in other years. IMO, 1969 was a pretty good year. Jon Savage makes a persuasive case for 1966 as being a pivotal year for pop music.

Perhaps one might compromise and say that 1965-1977 were the golden years of rock music as an un-ironic, non-self-referential cultural force. Before then it was all Larry Parnes showbiz pop and thereafter it was downhill into re-cycled posturing for cash with some good music thrown in.

AT LAST! Thank you @skankdelvar Three whole pages discussing the merits before anyone references David Hepworth’s book. Read it last year and I loved it. Packed full of great stuff and Hepworth’s writing style is really engaging. He puts forward some great arguments that 1971 is not the greatest year in rock necessarily but certainly an annus mirabilis given the album’s created and released. He also has the decency to concede that his view is strongly influenced by the fact that he was just the right age in 1971 to think this.

Highly recommended if you’ve not read it!

[Rich]

7 hours ago, scalpy said:

John Giblin? 

YES!

[steantval]

8 hours ago, Meddle said:

Roger Daltrey is an irrelevant old man with the typical boomer mentality that once stuff stopped peaking for them it stopped being good, period. He is a boring, opinionated, grumpy old chav with money. He peaked in 1971, not rock music. 

Yeh, what about his work for the teenage cancer trust.

[skankdelvar]

3 hours ago, steantval said:

Yeh, what about his work for the teenage cancer trust.

Indeed. Daltrey: 

“I remember my teenage years and they’re the hardest years of your life for so many reasons,” he says.

“You’re just starting to think about going out and really enjoying yourself, then a doctor tells you, ‘Sorry, you’ve got this.’ It must be a terrible blow.”

“And when a teenager gets cancer, it affects so many people . . . their families, their mates, their class at school.”

As for being a 'chav',  it's true that Daltrey worked as a sheet metal cutter before The Who took off. But like many young working class people of the 50's and 60's Daltrey wasn't prepared knuckle under to an establishment clique of bourgeois snobs who relished keeping the less fortunate in their place.

It's all different now, of course.

Edited June 2, 2018 by skankdelvar

[drTStingray]

Yes he's completely wrong - actually horrendously wrong - maybe his memory's gone a little -  just a few post 1971 tracks:-

1) Kashmir - Led Zeppelin - in fact the whole album Physical Graffiti

2) Schools Out - Alice Cooper - just seen it on bbc4 - what a killer bass part - totally blues rock

3) Frankenstein - Edgar Winter Band

4) Anything by Bad Company

5) Anything by AC/DC

Ok some of the blues rockers from the late 60s had changed somewhat - indeed Fleetwood Mac  is a good example but there's any amount of good post 1971 rock music.

I was thinking Black Dog - Led Zeppelin as an archetypal classic rock track - but Led Zeppelin 4 was released in December 1971 so he's just about right there.

Who's Next is a great album btw!!

 

 

[chris_b]

5 hours ago, visog said:

Christ you guys are going to struggle if we have an 'R&B' thread.

Not me!!

[Woodinblack]

I would say like most things that Daltry whines about, this is complete rubbish.