ROLI Seaboard - any users here?

[Skol303]

Anyone here using a ROLI Seaboard product? For instance, the Block, Rise 25/49 or the Grand?

Info here for anyone unfamiliar with them. They're basically a 'new' type of MIDI controller instrument that allow MIDI Polyphonic Expression (MPE). Think of them as being a like the MIDI keyboard version of a fretless bass. Sort of.

If you have one, I'd be grateful to hear about your experiences with it. They get great reviews, but the honest critique of fellow Basschatters is always the best seal of approval

My current MIDI controller is playing up; hence I'm eyeing the ROLI range as a potential successor. They're quite expensive, but the compact ROLI Block is within budget. Looks very futuristic too... or a bit 'gimpy', depending on your perspective.

[Woodinblack]

I don't have one, but have used one a few times for a few minutes. I like the 49 key keyboard - hated it the first time I used it, but when you start playing it as something other than a keyboard it is fairly brilliant. But there is a drag from the rubber and it is odd, which is probably what I hated it to start.

However, when you start getting used to it, there is nothing that can touch it for expression. I was very tempted when I could get a 49 key for not too much (ie, not too much for a seaboard, still quite a lot), but still had the issue that I would still need a conventional keyboard as well.

I looked at the blocks, but wasn't convinced that it would work with so few keys.

 

Sorry, not that much help!

 

 

[Akio Dāku]

@xgsjx owns one, he did his entry for the comp challenge with it. 

[xgsjx]

Yup, I’ve got a Rise 25 & can’t get enough of it.

I’ve started to  play it in the band too, using it for bass & pads (last night I just used the Moog model D app on my phone). 

The surface takes a little getting used to, but after 30 mins you learn that you don’t push the keys down like you would on a keyboard (you can do though) & it’s just a superb tool for expression. 

Indeed as @Akio Dāku says, I've used it on the past 2 tracks.  If you use Logic X, then many of the instruments are MPE and can make good use of the Seaboard.  The Rise comes with 2 instruments, Roli's Equator (which is an amazing synth) and FXpansion's Strobe2.

If you're on a budget, then the Seaboard block only loses the controls at the left.  I use them, but there's plenty of expression on the playing surface to warrant not using them (I didn't touch them last night with the band) & the good thing about the Block is you can add another to get a 4, 6 or 8 octave surface.

What else I love about the Rise 25 is how portable it is.  It's made of metal & silicone, so little chance of breaking it, the bluetooth over midi works really well (though I'll use USB at a gig to be safe), a full battery charge takes 3 hours over USB (whilst you play it too) & a charge lasts for 11 hours.
If I want to play it, I can plug my earphones into my phone, open up either of the Roli apps, GarageBand or Moog Model D & connect the Rise via bluetooth & play.  It's really that easy.  I can even chuck it in the back of the car (it comes with a case).

My one criticism, I'd like more than 25 keys.  If I were to replace it, I'd go for the Rise 49 & there's a high chance I'm gonna do that too.

When I get time, I'll edit the GoPro footage from last night & pop a track on here.

Edited May 30, 2018 by xgsjx

[Skol303]

^ Thanks for the input guys! Your experiences seem to match the reviews I’ve been reading.

The Rise 49 would be ideal, but I literally don’t have space for a keyboard that size in my set up - not without installing a shelf at my mix/listening position, which would cause all kinds of comb filtering with the acoustics… have I mentioned that I’m an acoustics obsessive!? 

So yeah, I need something more compact, hence I’m considering the Block. I could probably fit two of those in my workspace, so I’d have scope to expand up to 48 keys with a footprint comparable to the Rise 25. Seems like the best option for my situation.

I think they have ROLI products to demo at my local Apple Store, so I’m going to head down there one lunchtime this week and have a play.

Seems like a truly innovative instrument anyway; and very exciting that the ‘traditional’ keyboard has been given this kind of makeover. Makes total sense when you think about it. I also found this product in the works from Keith McMillen - the K-Board Pro 4 - another MPE compliant keyboard, which looks very tasty but isn’t shipping until later this year.

 

[xgsjx]

Is there a Guitar Guitar near you?  They usually stock Roli stuff.

If you're ever up my way, you're welcome to pop in for a play about on it.

Edited May 30, 2018 by xgsjx

[Skol303]

3 hours ago, xgsjx said:

If you're ever up my way, you're welcome to pop in for a play about on it.

Thanks G! I'm not up in Scotland as often as I used to be... I'm more of a Europhile these days  - but that's a very nice offer.

My local Apple store in Manchester has some ROLI products in stock - not sure what the deal is between ROLI and Apple (?). So I'm going to pop in there and have a play.

[Woodinblack]

PMT to the rolis as well. DOn't know about the blocks but they have the seaboards.

[Skol303]

So I visited my local Apple Store after work yesterday and now have a ROLI block on order from Gear4Music (where they're slightly cheaper).

Was totally sold in the first few minutes of playing with one. Slightly weird and a lot more squishy than I was expecting! Had a mess around using the Equator synth and wow... the things you can do with slides, vibrato, pull-offs etc is really quite amazing. Much more than I was expecting.

So it seems like a great fit for me. Something very compact and yet also chock full of functionality.

My only criticism would be the black keys. It's going to take me a little while to adjust to 'seeing' the notes - I'm not a natural keyboard player at all! Maybe I'll have to paint mine with Tippex

 

[xgsjx]

You soon get used to all the keys being black & the squidgyness of the surface.
You really don't need to push down hard to start with, but you'll find that you use the further squidge for pushing into the sound & changing the textures.

Get Dettol wipes (the ones in the white packet) for wiping it down with.  You don't need to wipe it after every use.

[Skol303]

1 hour ago, xgsjx said:

Get Dettol wipes (the ones in the white packet) for wiping it down with.  You don't need to wipe it after every use.

[Happy Jack]

How do you use these things in a live-on-stage, band situation? 

Presumably you can't simply run a 1/4" jack-to-jack or XLR cable into your PA, so you do you run this into a laptop, have a bunch of sounds stored on the hard disk, and then run from the laptop into the PA?

Please tell me that 5-pin DIN plugs are not involved anywhere in the process ...

[Sibob]

3 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

How do you use these things in a live-on-stage, band situation? 

Presumably you can't simply run a 1/4" jack-to-jack or XLR cable into your PA, so you do you run this into a laptop, have a bunch of sounds stored on the hard disk, and then run from the laptop into the PA?

Please tell me that 5-pin DIN plugs are not involved anywhere in the process ...

That's exactly how you use it, it's just a Midi controller, no onboard sounds etc. So you'd connect to your computer (where your sounds are stored) via USB, and then connect the computers output (typically via an interface) to the desk/PA etc.

Si

[xgsjx]

I usually run a USB to my macbook, which sits near the Seaboard, then into an interface & then into the PA.

However, last jam, I did midi over bluetooth to my iPhone with the Moog Model D app & took a line from the headphone socket straight into my bass rig.  Sounded immense!  Easy set up too.

The good thing about the Seaboard is it takes 3 hours for a full charge & it lasts 11 hours, so there's no need to have any wires in the Seaboard at all.

No 5 pin dins.  lol

Edited May 31, 2018 by xgsjx

[Skol303]

1 hour ago, Skol303 said:

 

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

How do you use these things in a live-on-stage, band situation? 

[Happy Jack]

For me, then, the problem is the signal path.

Player --> Roli --> Laptop --> Interface --> PA, instead of Player --> Keyboard --> Combo.

Old-school involves plugging in a power cord and an instrument cable.

Sooper-dooper new-school involves plugging together three pieces of kit before you get to the PA, each connection using a different cable type, and every stage offering loads of extra ways to get the settings & interfaces wrong, plus the added benefit of relying on downloaded software and patches to make any sound at all.

What could possibly go wrong?

To be clear, I love the idea of these things and I've seriously contemplated buying one, but the realities of using one in a live band situation look pretty nightmarish to me. If I was in a touring band with tech guys and roadies then fine, but at the Dog & Duck? Not for me, Clive ...

 

[xgsjx]

I can understand your concern

There’s a couple of other options.

Roli with no wires > bluetoothed to laptop with audio interface > combo/pa.

Roli > hardware synth module via usb > combo/pa.

So far, connecting to pa or bass rig has been a simple jack to jack.  The most cables I have are 2 usb cables (Roli to MacBook & MacBook to interface) and a jack to jack from interface to amp/pa.  Last jam was 2 cables, minijack to jack from iPhone to amp & psu to make sure the iPhone never went flat.

I’ve had my bass fail on me at a gig. 

[Happy Jack]

Ah yes ... of course I'd also need to buy a MacBook. Outstanding. 

I've hated Apple kit for over 30 years. Can't see that changing any time soon. 

[BigRedX]

Is MIDI over Bluetooth sufficiently latency-free? Audio over Bluetooth is unusable for real-time applications.

I'm still not convinced about the durability of personal computer standard connectors and cables in a gigging situation. None of them lock properly and all the cables are thin and weedy.

[xgsjx]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

Is MIDI over Bluetooth sufficiently latency-free? Audio over Bluetooth is unusable for real-time applications.

I'm still not convinced about the durability of personal computer standard connectors and cables in a gigging situation. None of them lock properly and all the cables are thin and weedy.

I’ve not noticed any latency.

I was a little apprehensive about it & had until recently, used a decent usb A-B cable. 

Many DJs & electronica musicians use a laptop these days. They rarely have any issues if using decent kit.  The laptop & interface sit on a stand or small table next to the Seaboard, so the only thing that’s near them is me. I use a decent jack to jack from the interface to my rig. 

Tbh, things can & sometimes do go wrong with instruments, hardware synths can fail, amps can fail (I’ve had that too).

There’s many big name bands using laptops. Devo used nothing but 4 laptops a few years ago. Yes, they probably had plenty of back up, but thenguitar based bands have backup guitars too. 

[Skol303]

1 hour ago, xgsjx said:

Many DJs & electronica musicians use a laptop these days. They rarely have any issues if using decent kit.  

Precisely.

When not posting gifs involving blow-up sheep, I'm very much an analogue, trusty TRS/XLR cable kinda guy... but the entire DJ / live electronic music scene is built on plugging laptops and various USB/FireWire/Ethernet devices into PA systems via audio interfaces and mixers. The signal chain involved in using a ROLI live is child’s play in comparison to some of the live set ups I’ve seen 

To quote Ferris Bueller: “Life moves pretty fast…”

[Happy Jack]

Mine doesn't.

[BigRedX]

11 hours ago, Skol303 said:

Precisely.

When not posting gifs involving blow-up sheep, I'm very much an analogue, trusty TRS/XLR cable kinda guy... but the entire DJ / live electronic music scene is built on plugging laptops and various USB/FireWire/Ethernet devices into PA systems via audio interfaces and mixers. The signal chain involved in using a ROLI live is child’s play in comparison to some of the live set ups I’ve seen 

To quote Ferris Bueller: “Life moves pretty fast…”

I've had lots of problems with so-called pro audio gear using computer cables to join it together. My particular bug-bear is Cat5e cables. I had lots of these which are roughly 20 years old and have performed perfectly well for that time connecting all the devices in my home/office network. However when I start using one to join my Line6 Floorboard to the BassPod and it fails within a couple of months of weekly gigging and rehearsals, as do its next few replacements. Finally I went out and bought some very expensive versions made with Van Damme coilable Cat5e cable and heavy duty booted RJ45 plugs. These have lasted quite a bit longer but even then one of them failed after a couple of years of moderate gigging. On the other hand I have (1/4") jack and XLR leads made with good quality components that have lasted for getting on for 40 years, without any attention.

 Because of the sort of music I am playing these days, I find myself sharing the stage with a lot of bands using computer-based set-ups, and it always fills me with dread when I see them assembling their systems on some rickety stand, joining everything together with consumer-grade computer cables.

Conversely our laptop is housed in a flight case with all the required peripherals - audio and MIDI interfaces, DI/Isolation boxes, PSUs, bolted/screwed/cable-tied/glued in place. All the flimsy computer cables are contained within the case and connections with the outside world are made with XLRs via a front mounted patch panel. It takes seconds to set up and has proved to be completely reliable.

[Happy Jack]

8 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Conversely our laptop is housed in a flight case with all the required peripherals - audio and MIDI interfaces, DI/Isolation boxes, PSUs, bolted/screwed/cable-tied/glued in place. All the flimsy computer cables are contained within the case and connections with the outside world are made with XLRs via a front mounted patch panel. It takes seconds to set up and has proved to be completely reliable.

Now that would work for me, Mike.

[xgsjx]

18 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Now that would work for me, Mike.

And with that, you could bluetooth midi to the laptop & have no cables to/from the Seaboard.