T-Cut on a lacquer finish?

[Happy Jack]

I've just bought a lovely 1979/80 Ovation Magnum III in a brown lacquer finish vaguely reminiscent of Rickenbacker ShitGlo.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Ovation-Magnum-III-Bass-with-Original-Hardshell-Case/192537820510?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

What the photos in the listing don't show is that the finish is strangely 'cloudy' and also paler in some areas than others. It looks almost like it's been exposed to too much sunshine over the years.

It plays beautifully and sounds awesome, so no actual problem, but I'm wondering if I can titivate it a bit with a judicious application of T-Cut.

What does the panel think?

 

[ezbass]

I’ve always had good results with T-Cut on nitro. Enjoy your new acquisition; will chez Jack be rocking to some Journey tunes in the near future?

[ikay]

I used Virtuoso cleaner/polish on an old Hofner nitro finish with very good results - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Virtuoso-Premium-Instrument-Polish-Cleaner/dp/B0088Q50BM

[Happy Jack]

Thanks guys, but I don't think this is nitro.

It's not a high-gloss finish like many of the modern lacquers, but it's far more 'plasticky' than nitro.

[Bassassin]

If it's a poly finish, knock yerself out. I've lost count of the number of old, battered basses & guitars I've T-cut to within an inch of their lives, with some genuinely spectacular results with poly.

The stuff is bomb-proof, usually at least 1mm thick and IMO takes a shine better than car lacquer. This is a '72 MIJ Jazz copy which someone had tried to relic, and was sanded all over when I got it. I didn't take any "before" pics but there was absolutely no shine anywhere.

Took a bit of elbow grease but turned out quite presentable!

I would say it's probably a good idea to test out on an inconspicuous area first, just to make sure it'll do what you want. I apply T-Cut with those little circular cotton-wool pads Boots sell in the make-up bit, and polish off with a clean, dry cotton rag. Microfibre cloths work OK too.

[Happy Jack]

I've had a first pass at the bass with T-Cut, and in truth I'm not seeing any difference worth mentioning.

http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/library/Basses CURRENT/Ovation Magnum III 1980 CURRENT

It doesn't photograph well but, in this shot, the two most cloudy areas are around the neckplate and at the rear of the upper bout.

Maybe I haven't used enough elbow grease?

[Bassassin]

Possibly not - maybe try focusing on a small patch in the middle of a particularly cloudy bit. Give it a serious rubbing (matron!), then you should be able to see if there's much contrast with an unpolished bit.

[Andyjr1515]

Hi @Happy Jack

I'm not convinced that t-cut or similar will sort the milkiness.  I think the milkiness is most likely to have been that moisture was prevalent during the spraying and is trapped in the finish.  I have a neck on an Indie 6-string electric that is just the same and the cloudiness is throughout the thickness of the varnish.

Furniture makers have various scary ways of dealing with it - including coating with various substances that draw out the moisture.  Some techniques can be seen here http://homeguides.sfgate.com/fix-milky-finish-wood-47528.html. The denatured alcohol one looks the least risky but you never know. 

Like all things to do with finish, if you try it, start with a small area where it's not going to show if it doesn't react as expected...

Edited May 28, 2018 by Andyjr1515

[Happy Jack]

Thanks Andy.

Reckon I'll give it another go with the T-Cut first, and this time give it a bit more elbow grease before I give up.

If that fails, then I may try the denatured alcohol, if only because I've read about that stuff when I was reading up on Prohibition and I'm curious ...

[Grangur]

Hi Jack, T-Cut used to work on old cars to remove cloudy paint when the paint was all there was on the surface and we used to use T-Cut to remove the top layer.

These days cars and basses have 6 tons of lacquer over the colour and you would need to remove all the lacquer to touch the paint.

@Andyjr1515 is right about the damp. Milky finish is known in the spraying business as "bloom". It happens when you spray when the booth is too cold. A spray booth needs to be kept warm, so the humidity stays suspended in the air and not condense on any cold surfaces.

A good French-polisher guy would be able to deal with it for you. I used to know a guy who did this on coffee tables by pouring on thinners,  or something like, and setting fire to it. BUT DON'T DO THIS AT HOME!!!

[Phil Starr]

I'm no expert in musical instruments (I'd take Andyjr's advice over mine) but I do a lot of working with wood including restoring antique furniture. This sort of clouding doesn't look to me like anything T-Cut would benefit and I agree from the photos it looks like something is in the finish. To me it doesn't look like a lacquered finish from the photos, but I'm far from sure. It's very similar to my dining room table which is 15 layers of Danish oil which is a mixture of oils and alkyd resins. If it is it's not an impermeable finish and does tend to soak up thins over time like oil from our skin and even sweat. 

It may well be that over time people have added finishes, like a layer of wax or maybe oil over the original finish. That sort of bloom can also be caused if someone has used a silicone based polish at some stage. I'm guessing here without the bass in front of me but people do all sorts of strange things to wood. Personally I'd live with it and maybe just sort out the dinks and scratches. If you do want to try something yourself I'd start off by cleaning off as much of the patina as a solvent could take off. Work on bits that won't be obvious with the usual solvents and a cotton bud to start. Alcohol is probably the mildest or even just soapy water if you keep it as dry as possible. White spirit or even petrol are a bit stronger but go carefully on a small patch, there are also commercial varnish cleaners (not strippers) available. 

go carefully, good luck

[Happy Jack]

Thanks guys. I have to say, I'm tempted by the idea of putting the bass on the stage at the end of the gig, pouring lighter fluid all over it, and setting fire to it. I never realised that Hendrix was actually trying to restore the finish on his Strat ...

 

[Silvia Bluejay]

Denatured alcohol is just a type of surgical spirit, isn't it. I know it's commonly used in Europe as a solution of usually 95% ethanol denatured by 5% methanol. Very flammable, but an excellent disinfectant for skin grazes, or after injections, etc., and its smell only lasts for a few seconds.