Tips for taming volume of acoustic drums?

[James Nada]

The drummer I play with says plastic tipped sticks are quieter than wooden sticks.    I'm not convinced it'd make a huge difference, but there you go.

Might be worth a go though if your drummer is reluctant to use some of the other solutions offered.

 

[leschirons]

As Dad says, a change of technique is the answer. However, if it's a really cheap quick fix you're after, and he's not a compulsive rim-shotter, get him a pair of 7A sticks and stick a tea towel or T-shirt over the snare with a couple of big elastic bands to hold it.

It's mainly the snare and cymbals that will need taming.

[Dad3353]

+1 to the above as starters, just to get the principle established. Nylon-tipped sticks won't help (they're what I use exclusively, but they're no more quiet than wooden-tipped...).

Another 'ruse' might be to get him to use Vic Firth hickory sticks. If he's a hard hitter, he'll soon get tired of 'em busting..! 

[neilp]

Nothing to say, except that any musician should be able to control his volume. There's absolutely no excuse for it

[mikel]

1 hour ago, leschirons said:

As Dad says, a change of technique is the answer. However, if it's a really cheap quick fix you're after, and he's not a compulsive rim-shotter, get him a pair of 7A sticks and stick a tea towel or T-shirt over the snare with a couple of big elastic bands to hold it.

It's mainly the snare and cymbals that will need taming.

A change of technique would be playing with less force. Its an easy thing to practice. I can be a heavy hitter, when I want to or it suits the situation. We practiced for two months, once a week, in the singers big garden shed and keeping the volume down was essential. Now I can play the same songs at living room volume or stadium volume. Its simply down to desire and practice. If the drummer refuses to modify his playing, ie being a proper musician, you might want to get another drummer to suit what you do and where you play. Dynamics are an essential drumming skill.

[Len_derby]

Unless I've missed it you haven't said if the drummer acknowledges or accepts that he's playing too loud.

If you approach him with solutions for a problem he doesn't think he has - it could get a bit sticky. A lot of tact and diplomacy need there I think. 

Are the rest of the band in agreement?

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

Plenty of food for thought there so far, thanks.

I think we all recognise that volume is an issue.  Part of the reason for action now stems from me having got hold of a sound level meter, and I happened to use it on Saturday night - I've just bought ACS ER17s having been using generic plugs until now, and I realised that they take less of the top end off than I'm used to (which is a good thing, they're very even) so I was wondering how loud we actually are.  The meter peaked at 117dB within the first few songs, and was averaging between 106 and 112dB when I took it off peak hold and kept an eye on it.  Singer, keys player and I were all about the same distance from the drummer, but the guitarist was between me and the drummer so he was probably getting a few dB more than me.  He was visibly shocked when I told him how loud we were.  Sunday morning I ordered a set of 26dB filters and sent an email with some swearing, some educational material on hearing loss, and some more swearing - it's only me and the singer who consistently use plugs, and the keys player and drummer never do.  

But now the point for me is not about hearing protection (I'm sorted, and as far as the others go, well, you can lead a horse to water...), it's more about whether the punters find it off putting and the suspicion that we'll sound better if we're less loud overall.  

One other thing occurred to me just now - when we first started playing gigs the drummer complained of not being able to hear the rest of us well enough.  We've since gone from one to two monitors, and then last Saturday to three.  I'm wondering if the stage volume has crept up and is making the problem worse, so maybe just pulling back on the monitor levels might be a help - maybe he'll play quieter if it helps him hear the rest of us.

The rest of the band are going to the pub after our rehearsal tomorrow (sadly I can't make it to the pub...) and I think it'll get discussed there.  

I'll keep you posted if we make any progress.

 

[peteb]

I know that it is not a popular opinion on here, but the fact is that most top rock drummers are pretty loud. From John Bonham through to modern day monsters like Kenny Aronoff, Taylor Hawkins, Josh Freese or many more – they can all play with a certain amount of dynamics but their default mode is f***in loud. I’ve been gigging in hard rock bands of various hues for the past 35 years and most of the better drummers within that genre that I’ve played with have been pretty thunderous.

However, I do share your pain as one of my bands (playing rock covers) is having a similar issue. The drummer (not the best I’ve ever played with, but certainly not the worst) sounds great, but he is just too loud for most of the gigs we do these days.We need a find a compromise of volume and quality of sound from the kit, because our PA (not to mention our ears) can't keep up with him. 

You will probably find that most of the problem will be with the snare. Many hard rock drummers will intentionally hit a bit of the rim when they hit the backbeat. This makes the snare sound really big but adds a lot of volume. Our first option is to try and get our guy to do this a bit more selectively rather than as a default. The second thing is to try and persuade him to get a smaller, slightly shallower snare drum for pub gigs. This should still cut through, but with a more manageable onstage volume.

Edited May 22, 2018 by peteb

[Dad3353]

13 minutes ago, peteb said:

... get a smaller, slightly shallower snare drum for pub gigs. This should still cut through, but with a more manageable on stage volume.

Don't bet on that..!  My Camco 5 1/2 maple snare cracks like a pistol shot when played with sticks, the rim-shot breaks glass..! Maybe a piccolo snare (12", 3 1/2 deep..?), but even that will have a very tiresome timbre after a few minutes..! No, go the opposite way, and listen to a couple of 8" deep snares. They'll sound fatter, thicker, deeper (naturally..!) and suit heavy rock stuff quite well, but normally played, produce a much less aggressive 'crack'.
I might agree about those drummers cited playing loud, but they could (and did...) play to the occasion, too, and got rock tones without the thunder if that's what was needed.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Dad3353

[peteb]

20 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Don't bet on that..!  My Camco 51/2 maple snare cracks like a pistol shot when played with sticks, the rim-shot breaks glass..! Maybe a piccolo snare (12", 31/2 deep..?), but even that will have a very tiresome timbre after a few minutes..! No, go the opposite way, and listen to a couple of 8" deep snares. They'll sound f

Funnily enough, me & the guitar player were discussing this issue with another drummer friend in the pub over the weekend. He intentionally got a smaller snare so that he could control the volume better onstage. At the time I was in a band with him and thought that he should have gone for a bigger snare, but he was certainly on the right track. He was also the one who mentioned the rimshot issue with the drummer in the current band.  

No one wants it to be too quiet – drums in a rock band are supposed to be loud, to move air and inject a certain amount of excitement onstage. But there has to be a balance, especially on a smaller stage…

[Dad3353]

34 minutes ago, peteb said:

...so that he could control the volume better onstage. At the time I was in a band with him and thought that he should have gone for a bigger snare, but he was certainly on the right track...

The clue is there: '...he could control the volume...' Yes, if used with expertise and experience, it's all good, but were you not suggesting that your current drummer is an inveterate 'hard hitter'..? A shallower shell will still be loud, but with an even more annoying 'crack' to it..! Still, if it does the job... 

[Happy Jack]

The nastiest drum I've ever heard is a piccolo snare. As a non-drummer, if there is one contribution I can make to this thread, it's DON'T LET HIM HAVE A PICCOLO SNARE!!!

 

[chris_b]

13 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

The nastiest drum I've ever heard is a piccolo snare. As a non-drummer, if there is one contribution I can make to this thread, it's DON'T LET HIM HAVE A PICCOLO SNARE!!!

+1

[Lozz196]

Or a Ludwig Black Beauty. Or one of those china cymbals, they`re horrible and far too loud.

[Dad3353]

24 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Or a Ludwig Black Beauty...

No..!  Wondrous instruments..! Tone personified..! I play maple shells, myself, but if I had the cash... 

[Vinny]

33 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

No..!  Wondrous instruments..! Tone personified..! I play maple shells, myself, but if I had the cash... 

Someone I know recently spent enough to replace ALL my gear AND the car I carry it in on one of these "toneful" things, and set it up next to his old one. 

*annoyingly loud piercing crack*...*much louder and therefore much more annoying loud piecing crack*...

..."See?"

"Uh, nope. "

*repeats*

Ahdungeddit. Probably never will.

[mrtcat]

If he's not prepared to learn how to control his volume then you could get hold of a cheap kit and convert it to electronic. Total spend was about £250 for mine and it looks great and works well. All from eBay except the silent stroke skins. Even the brass cymbals are electronic. 

[bertbass]

On the gigs we've played when everything is too loud, our drummer used to put foam rubber discs inside his drums.  They were 2" which and cut just larger than the diameter of the drum that they were pushed into.  Worked a treat!  Mind you, all the drums only had single heads so made it very easy.  The snare just had a tea towel over the top head, that worked well as well.

 

Now however things are different.  He recently got one of these.

Absolutely brilliant!!!  Loud enough but not too loud and so easy to transport.  Recommend every drummer to at least give them a try, they'll be impressed!

Edited May 23, 2018 by bertbass

[Dad3353]

23 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

...convert it to electronic...

Details, please..? (Links, if possible, products used, docs referred to; anything, really...). T'would be good to have this as an option, not for my Camco kit, but my Swingstar. In your own time, if you can. Thanks in advance for any gen... 

[Monkey Steve]

I was at a festival a few weeks ago and a fairly well known band (in death metal circles, possibly not "fairly well known" in any absolute terms) has an acoustic kit with an electronic bass drum.  Looked very weird - the drum itself was  tiny as it only needs to be big enough to hit by the pedal, and was actually part of his set up to do with triggers, but it sounded just as good as an acoustic drum and obviously much easier to control volume wise (not that that's a particular issue for them)

I also have one drummer mate who much prefers his electronic kit - small, light, very controllable and can sound like anything he wants - and is permanently fed up that the rest of his band won't let him use it live because it just doesn't look right for a metal band

Edited May 23, 2018 by Monkey Steve

[Leonard Smalls]

26 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

permanently fed up that the rest of his band won't let him use it live because it just doesn't look right for a metal band

Our drummer has a decent e-kit which he does all his practice on... He's not keen on using it live for rock reasons as well! I'd be well happy if he did, then we could ditch my amp as well and tell Mr Guitar he just needs a decent amp sim/fx unit, go in-ears and he can sell his Marshall stack to provide some hookers'n'coke money 

[ambient]

Practice?

[mrtcat]

3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Details, please..? (Links, if possible, products used, docs referred to; anything, really...). T'would be good to have this as an option, not for my Camco kit, but my Swingstar. In your own time, if you can. Thanks in advance for any gen... 

I essentially picked up a yamaha gigmaster kit for about £60 (gumtree - parents desperate to sell a poorly thought out xmas gift lol) and a yamaha electronic kick, hihat and ride cymbal from ebay for £55. The module I use is a Megadrum which I use to trigger Superior Drummer on a laptop. 

To convert the toms I used some cone triggers i picked up from ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-pak-drum-trigger-replacement-DIY-foam-cone-Convertible-Percussions-/152148530322 They're nothing more complex than a piezo and a little foam cone but thery're really very good. I followed this technique 

The cymbals are pretty simple with two piezos on each, some thick clear 3m sticky back plastic (the stuff some people put on their cars to prevent stone chips) and a little plastic box inside which I wire the piezos to a jack. There are some far more advanced ways of doing this to allow cymbal choking etc.  Try this for an idea (sorry the guy is pretty annoying but its a good demo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npnuaguzq6Y

Any questions just ask. I'm really looking into a 2box drummit 5 module so we can work live without the laptop but it might mean a bit of work needed on the cymbal set up and a better hihat system. More often than not, if we have to use it for gigs we use a real hihat and ride cymbal as they are so much better than any of the edrum conversions I've been able to sort.

 

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

1 hour ago, mrtcat said:

I essentially picked up a yamaha gigmaster kit for about £60 (gumtree - parents desperate to sell a poorly thought out xmas gift lol) and a yamaha electronic kick, hihat and ride cymbal from ebay for £55. The module I use is a Megadrum which I use to trigger Superior Drummer on a laptop. 

To convert the toms I used some cone triggers i picked up from ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-pak-drum-trigger-replacement-DIY-foam-cone-Convertible-Percussions-/152148530322 They're nothing more complex than a piezo and a little foam cone but thery're really very good. I followed this technique 

The cymbals are pretty simple with two piezos on each, some thick clear 3m sticky back plastic (the stuff some people put on their cars to prevent stone chips) and a little plastic box inside which I wire the piezos to a jack. There are some far more advanced ways of doing this to allow cymbal choking etc.  Try this for an idea (sorry the guy is pretty annoying but its a good demo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npnuaguzq6Y

Any questions just ask. I'm really looking into a 2box drummit 5 module so we can work live without the laptop but it might mean a bit of work needed on the cymbal set up and a better hihat system. More often than not, if we have to use it for gigs we use a real hihat and ride cymbal as they are so much better than any of the edrum conversions I've been able to sort.

 

Our singer's just suggested the same.  

In fact, as someone contemplating getting an electronic kit to learn on at some point, I’m quite keen on giving this a go for myself!

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, mrtcat said:

I essentially picked up a yamaha gigmaster kit...

Thanks for all that; very interesting, which I shall certainly follow up. There's no question of me gigging anything of the sort (that ship sailed long ago...  ), but for recording at home in our µ-studio, an assembly of such elements would be very useful. I have several Vst kits that could be driven by this, including the very excellent Superior 2. T'will take me a while to go through the videos, and to assimilate the info here; thanks for posting with such alacrity.