Tips for taming volume of acoustic drums?

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

Usual pub band sort of thing - guitar, keys, bass, drums, vocals.  In bigger places we're okay, but smaller rooms/low ceilings/wooden floors etc. can be a bit of a challenge.

Before anyone asks - yes, the drummer hits really hard, and no he can't consistently play softer (volume goes up pretty quickly in the heat of the moment, I'm guessing ear fatigue sets in quite quickly, and the effect on his hearing of 50 odd years of playing drums quite hard is probably a big factor).  Also, no, we're not going to look for a new drummer - the band is basically for our enjoyment (some of our audiences would agree!), playing a gig or two a month, and whilst we were a bunch of strangers that came together to form a band we're now a bunch of mates having a good time and don't want to change that.  Besides, his timing is rock solid, he turns up on time, and he's got his own transport!

I've done some googling and come up with: 

• Damping rings and gels (he already has some and they don't make much difference - more for taming unwanted resonance?)
• Stuffing the shells or stretching something across the shell under the head (quite a bit of a faff and certainly not a quick solution when you find yourself in a new, problematic, venue.)
• Electronic drums (my preference by far, but he's old school and not keen, plus the personal investment required would be pretty high and the band would need to invest in a bigger PA as we're keys and vocals only through it at the moment)
• Hot rods (my second preference, and hopefully one that will get tried)

Anyone have any other ideas or tips?

[discreet]

The only idea or tip I can provide is 'get another drummer', which I'm sure you don't want to hear. I know how difficult finding a good drummer is, and I know how much more difficult it is to find a good drummer who can consistently play quietly and in time. In my experience, a drummer who has been hitting hard for decades is probably half-deaf if he's not been using ear protection and there's no way he will change now. If he's a reasonable chap he'll use Hot Rods and that would be my first port of call as it's a cheap, simple option to try first.

[Leonard Smalls]

http://www.drumscreens.co.uk/drumscreens/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=29

 

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

17 minutes ago, discreet said:

The only idea or tip I can provide is 'get another drummer', which I'm sure you don't want to hear. I know how difficult finding a good drummer is, and I know how much more difficult it is to find a good drummer who can consistently play quietly and in time. In my experience, a drummer who has been hitting hard for decades is probably half-deaf if he's not been using ear protection and there's no way he will change now. If he's a reasonable chap he'll use Hot Rods and that would be my first port of call as it's a cheap, simple option to try first.

 

5 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

http://www.drumscreens.co.uk/drumscreens/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=29

 

Guitarist and I are working on the Hot Rods approach.  

Drumscreen - I like the idea, but probably not going to happen at the local Dog and Duck, even if there was enough room!

I happened to notice on Saturday night when we were setting up that I had to shout several times at the drummer to get his attention when his back was turned - I don't usually notice a problem talking to him, but I now suspect he's a better lip reader than he realises!

I know I'll get a chorus of "if he can't play softly then he's not a good drummer" but in every other way he's great - nice bloke, usually turns up first and still helps with lugging in other gear despite the fact he's already lugged in all his own, plays appropriately (volume excepted), rock solid timing, traipses round places getting us gigs, etc.

[cheddatom]

I really don't think hot rods will make a heavy hitter any quieter

If he's hard of hearing and everyone else is loud, he might be playing harder to hear himself over everyone else. Turn your amps down. Does he play quieter or does he just complain that he can no longer hear everyone else?

[ricksterphil]

Our drummer has an electric kit which goes straight into the PA which is a Yamaha 400w affair with 2x12 full range speakers and handles 3 x vocals and an acoustic and it works great. Really handy for small venues and a total doddle to set up. He has his own monitor which runs off the PA so he can hear himself

[discreet]

23 minutes ago, ricksterphil said:

Our drummer has an electric kit which goes straight into the PA which is a Yamaha 400w affair with 2x12 full range speakers and handles 3 x vocals and an acoustic and it works great. Really handy for small venues and a total doddle to set up. He has his own monitor which runs off the PA so he can hear himself

I suppose for a traditional old-school drummer, a possible solution would be an electronic kit that looks like a regular kit..?

[Mudpup]

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

http://www.drumscreens.co.uk/drumscreens/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=29

 

Absolutely this!

Our shedbuilder invested in one about 3 months ago - same issues, he's naturally loud so the volumes creep up for everyone blah blah.......
We thought we'd only use it on certain gigs where we are scaring the landlord but we've found that our whole sound is miles better with it and now use it almost all the time.

As well as limiting the overall drum volume its tightened the whole sound up and i can slot the bass in a lot easier with the kick (which we put thru the pa/sub). Nobody's suffering from cymbal ears any more either. We can get a great controlled beefy sound at lower volumes.

Its also a great topic of conversation with the crowd - especially when we tell them we fill it with water in the second set :-) And we're looking for some stick on Garfields to stick on the inside where he cant each them whilst he's playing. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Mudpup

[ben4343]

I rate Hotrods a lot - we got some for our drummer who was torn between wanting to play how he wanted, but was aware enough to know that sometimes less is more. Took him a couple of sessions to get used to, but it made a big difference to the sound and also the vibe - he could still leather the kit so not feel constrained/like he was holding back, and therefore keep his 'style' without the headaches. Worth a try for sure.

[Lozz196]

Our drummer uses damping rings. They don`t make him quieter but they do make the attack of the drum seem quicker, and there is less resonance, so they should probably be known as compressors

[discreet]

Just now, Lozz196 said:

Our drummer uses damping rings. They don`t make him quieter but they do make the attack of the drum seem quicker, and there is less resonance, so they should probably be known as compressors

Oh my God, you said the 'c' - word!! 

[bassace]

Getting the drummer to play quieter is like cutting the lawn with a tumble dryer.

[cheddatom]

29 minutes ago, ben4343 said:

I rate Hotrods a lot - we got some for our drummer who was torn between wanting to play how he wanted, but was aware enough to know that sometimes less is more. Took him a couple of sessions to get used to, but it made a big difference to the sound and also the vibe - he could still leather the kit so not feel constrained/like he was holding back, and therefore keep his 'style' without the headaches. Worth a try for sure.

I don't understand this. If I "leather the kit" with my hot rods, it's just as loud as with sticks?!

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Mic the drums up and crank his monitoring up until he starts to play quieter - best results with headphones/IEMs, but a wedge aimed directly at his head will be pretty effective.

[discreet]

38 minutes ago, Mudpup said:

Nobody's suffering from cymbal ears any more...

[discreet]

26 minutes ago, bassace said:

Getting the drummer to play quieter is like cutting the lawn with a tumble dryer.

In both cases it can be done, but it's a huge effort which makes you hot and irritable.

[chris_b]

Good drummers can play at any volume, bad drummers only play at one volume.

So good drummers are flexible and have ears and a brain that can work out what is required and best for the gig. Bad drummers are inflexible, don't listen and don't care whether they are playing appropriately or not.

There is only one thing you can do with a bad drummer. . . . find a better one.

[discreet]

24 minutes ago, chris_b said:

There is only one thing you can do with a bad drummer. . .  find a better one.

I tend to agree, but back in the real world, finding a better drummer is much easier said than done! If I were as uncompromising as I'd like to be, I'd never be in a band, I'd never rehearse and I certainly wouldn't do any gigs. Having said that, the band I'm in currently has an excellent drummer and I'm grateful for that.

Edited May 22, 2018 by discreet

[chris_b]

26 minutes ago, discreet said:

I tend to agree, but back in the real world, finding a better drummer is much easier said than done! If I were as uncompromising as I'd like to be, I'd never be in a band, I'd never rehearse and I certainly wouldn't do any gigs. Having said that, the band I'm in currently has an excellent drummer and I'm grateful for that.

Good drummers are out there. I haven't played with a bad one in 20 years and I'm very grateful for my good fortune.

[Norris]

Our dep drummer played with us at a gig that HAD to be quiet. He used hotrods (or similar alternative brand). It sounded just the same but quieter. Still had a good night and neighbours didn't complain 

[bassjim]

The best drummers can control their volume to suit the situation they are in.  Looks like you have been given a choice here. Put up with it or put up with it.  

Its a bit like me insisting it only works when my  500 watt amp through a 4x 10  is on volume number 11/11 or its not quite the same and I cant do my thing if not. 

There is no magic wand solution to this at all.  The bits'n bobs like hot rods and screens do their bit for sure but its really down to can he still have a good time without ruining yours? All gigging and band life is about compromise. Some gigs he needs to accept its gonna bit less of a good one for him personally but a good one for the band as a whole. All bands sound stinky poo when being forced to go OTT loud by a drummer. Some venues just dont work at that volume. Feedback because the mics are maxed out and thats just for a start. 

Well at least he's a great mate and good laugh. You still have that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by bassjim

[Monkey Steve]

I hadn't heard of Hot Rods so I googled it to see what they were...

Found a thread on a drummers discussion board answering an identical question about being too loud for smaller venues, and one of them honestly suggests that to be quieter on stage the offending drummer should mic up his kit because that way they can turn the volume down through the PA

[mikel]

I also play drums and playing more quietly is not that difficult. If I can do it etc. Start with lighter shorter sticks. It helps a lot, less weight behind the hit and less leverage. Rehearse at a lower volume and after a few practices he will find it easier. If he plays from the fingers and wrists rather than big arm movements it helps. We all have to adjust to smaller venues and the drummer is no exception. Dynamics are the key.

[Vinny]

I threw 2 pencils at our original drummer once and told him he should play with those. He was no quieter!

[Dad3353]

Good, dynamic drumming, at any appropriate volume, is largely a question of technique. The real solution, if the bloke is up to it, is a good, competent drum prof to teach how to get the best from the kit, in all styles, at all volumes needed. It won't be over-night, but it' the 'real deal'. Meanwhile, there are solutions that work, but always, as usual, with a downside. Hot rods..? A very useful tool, indispensable in some styles, but a 'heavy hitter' will probably trash 'em pretty darned quick; they're not the strongest sticks around. This could cause budget issues, as they're not cheap, either. Worth a try, but not much to gain, without restraint from the fellow, I'd say. Drum screen..? Excellent as a solution, but very expensive, much stage footprint lost and one heck of a 'faff' in intimate venues. Worthwhile if the cost, weight and space are not an issue; I fear it'd be tiring over time, though.
When I was playing in folk-rock bands, 'back in the day', I made up a set of covers from linen sheets and knicker elastic (don't ask how I acquired that..!  ) to slip over the drum heads, a bit like a shower cap. That certainly muffled the drums (I've never been a 'lumberjack', but we were rehearsing and playing in very quiet venues...). The sound of the kit was, of course, radically changed, so if big, expansive 'Queen'-type toms are required, it won't fit the bill, but it may be worth trying (cover the heads with a cut-up tee-shirt to see if the tone is workable..?).
Drum lessons, though. That's the secret. Technique, learned, as quickly as possible from a good teacher, that's my 'top tip'. Good luck with it; it sounds as if he's worth it.
Keep us posted as to progress, please..?

Edited May 22, 2018 by Dad3353