The bass tone

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, dannybuoy said:

But you probably don't even hear much below 40Hz. You might feel it more than anything. If you chop off the fundamental, your brain hears the higher harmonics e.g. 80Hz and 160Hz, realises what's going on and you hear the bass when it's not there.

Thankfully this explains it better than I could!

Yes, but what's wrong with that? It's part of that magical 'heft' surely? 

[discreet]

Silence! I'm trying to watch Nazi Weird War Two...

[Skol303]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

So no point anyone playing a 5 string as the range low B to low E is exactly in 30-40Hz range? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Doesn't make sense to me either, probably because that's not what I'm saying.

Download a 30Hz test tone and play it through your bass amp or over headphones. Does it sound musical? Can you even hear much at all?

30-40Hz can certainly add a lot of weight to a bass instrument, but it doesn't add much to the 'musicality' of it. If you play that low 31Hz B-string then it sounds fat because the lowest fundamental is helping to underpin the overall sound, but much of what you're hearing is the harmonics above that. And you can roll of a lot of that 31Hz fundamental without affecting the overall tone or 'fatness'.

Try it. Maybe with a compressor

In a live gig setting, I'd be very wary of doing anything around 30-40Hz other than dialing it back due to the chaotic acoustics in most venues. If you're recording DI in a studio, it's a very different kettle of fish because the room is taken out of the picture and you can tweak to taste post-recording.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Skol303

[EBS_freak]

Whilst talking about tone... It’s not all about eq - some guys may want to look into saturation - this isn’t overdrive or destitution per se, in fact, if you perceive it as such, you have gone too far. The saturation effectively excites the harmonics and can give your bass a lot more “being there”, than just eq alone. Your ears are getting bamboozled and all of a sudden, your bass tone will just sound massive in comparison.

[Skol303]

1 hour ago, Osiris said:

I think there's some confusion over cutting the lower frequencies. No-one is saying incompletely remove every last trace of them at least as far as I understand it) but do attenuate them as they are not helpful to your sound.

PRECISELY!

[Skol303]

9 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Whilst talking about tone... It’s not all about eq - some guys may want to look into saturation

Absolutely. And sustain too...

A common misconception on here and elsewhere is: "What on earth would I want my bass to have good sustain, I don't play any long notes?" When in fact sustain is more about how the instrument generates harmonics, which are fundamental to a good tone.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Skol303

[Osiris]

17 minutes ago, Skol303 said:

Try it. Maybe with a compressor

Oh sweet baby Jesus NO. Just no. Do not get @Al Krow going on compressors again 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[discreet]

4 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Oh sweet baby Jesus NO. Just no. Do not get @Al Krow going on compressors again 

I'm off - just in case. 

[Osiris]

Just now, discreet said:

I'm off - just in case. 

Can you pick me up on the way, please? 

[Cuzzie]

You can hide at my bunker - pork scratching and crispy bits with real ale on tap

[skankdelvar]

The OP asked:

How do you change YOUR sound from your bedroom to your practice room?

When I said: 

Live band: Mids-boosted clank, leave everything under 100hz to the kick drum

I wasn't offering this up as a rule or even as a suggestion - it's just a brief summary of how I change my sound.

Other approaches may give equal satisfaction, tone being a subjective thing up to a point 

 

[Al Krow]

32 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Oh sweet baby Jesus NO. Just no. Do not get @Al Krow going on compressors again 

Relax boys. I fully understand that my continued participation on this forum is entirely predicated on not breaking my moderator imposed parole conditions with regard to the "C" word... 

27 minutes ago, discreet said:

I'm off - just in case. 

I thought you were busy being distracted by some slasher movie?! 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

52 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Can you pick me up on the way, please? 

49 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

You can hide at my bunker - pork scratching and crispy bits with real ale on tap

Edited May 16, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

56 minutes ago, Skol303 said:

Doesn't make sense to me either, probably because that's not what I'm saying.

Download a 30Hz test tone and play it through your bass amp or over headphones. Does it sound musical? Can you even hear much at all?

30-40Hz can certainly add a lot of weight to a bass instrument, but it doesn't add much to the 'musicality' of it. If you play that low 31Hz B-string then it sounds fat because the lowest fundamental is helping to underpin the overall sound, but much of what you're hearing is the harmonics above that. And you can roll of a lot of that 31Hz fundamental without affecting the overall tone or 'fatness'.

Try it. Maybe with a compressor

In a live gig setting, I'd be very wary of doing anything around 30-40Hz other than dialing it back due to the chaotic acoustics in most venues. If you're recording DI in a studio, it's a very different kettle of fish because the room is taken out of the picture and you can tweak to taste post-recording.

I think we're pretty much on the same page then. It ties in entirely with Dannybuoys comment about 'feeling' the note rather than hearing it and our collective quest for 'heft'.

The other side of the coin is this: pick a up a decent passive (in my case that's a Yammy BB1025) and simply roll off the 'tone' so you're significantly reducing the treble and emphasising the low end. No dialling back the low-end whatsoever involved. That produces a just fantastic 'phat' subby bass tone, which is perfect for a lot of songs. Horses for courses.

[EliasMooseblaster]

3 hours ago, Skol303 said:

30-40Hz is just noise anyway. Not much more than rumble; certainly on a bass guitar. You won't have anything musical going on down there, unless you're playing tuned 808 kick drum sounds in a room with immaculate acoustics. Which would be a very dull gig.

I'm sure that's already a piece by John Cage...

[Skol303]

21 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I think we're pretty much on the same page then... pick a up a decent passive (in my case that's a Yammy BB1025) and simply roll off the 'tone' so you're significantly reducing the treble and emphasising the low end... That produces a just fantastic 'phat' subby bass tone, which is perfect for a lot of songs.

^ Yup, that's exactly how I set up my Precision. Or don't set it up, as the case may be

32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Relax boys. I fully understand that my continued participation on this forum is entirely predicated on not breaking my moderator imposed parole conditions with regard to the "C" word...

Damn right! Now move along please, move along...

22 minutes ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

I'm sure that's already a piece by John Cage...

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 27, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Skol303]

^ Bravo! Great explanation; I couldn't have written that better myself.

[Al Krow]

Yes agreed it's a nice explanation, but not sure what relevance it has? We are not talking about listening to bass on 2" radio speakers here, but on decent 10" to 15" cabs (supplemented by sub woofers if need be). 

And as I pointed out dialling back the tone (i.e. cutting the higher frequencies) on my passive BB 1025 doesn't result into a rapid descent into "mush and scary rumbles", but produces something lush.

Have you guys ever heard reggae live? As I said, horses for courses.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Reggae is less about the subs and lows and more about the mids actually Al.

The reason you feel the note is because the sound systems often used 500” speakers at massive volumes

[Cuzzie]

10”, 15”, 500” speakers the statement stands that you make up the fundamental 

[jazzmanb]

Rarely use any of my live gear at home .Use a Eden 40w practice amp and any bass i fancy at home

Easy to get extreme tones at low volumes messing around ,don't mess much live

 

[Skol303]

21 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Yes agreed it's a nice explanation, but not sure what relevance it has? We are not talking about listening to bass on 2" radio speakers here, but on decent 10" to 15" cabs (supplemented by sub woofers if need be). 

@Jus Lukin can speak for himself of course… but his post is simply explaining how low frequency sounds and harmonics are perceived by us humans. It’s a good explanation of how and why those super low notes will still be ‘heard’ by the audience, even when they’re not actually ‘hearing’ much of 31Hz (or whatever) but the multiple harmonics above it.

This is a good thing for you and anyone else who play a 5-string bass, surely? Gives you some confidence to dial-back the very low end if need be - for instance, if the room acoustics are bad - without compromising your overall sound. No cleft in your heft, eh.

So I think it’s perfectly relevant to this discussion. Your misunderstanding of the point being made is evident in your comment about "dialling back the tone on my passive BB 1025 doesn't result into a rapid descent into "mush and scary rumbles", but produces something lush", which has nothing to do with what Jus Lukin is talking about.

Jus saying  

[PaulWarning]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

The other side of the coin is this: pick a up a decent passive (in my case that's a Yammy BB1025) and simply roll off the 'tone' so you're significantly reducing the treble and emphasising the low end. No dialling back the low-end whatsoever involved. That produces a just fantastic 'phat' subby bass tone, which is perfect for a lot of songs. Horses for courses.

 

1 hour ago, Skol303 said:

^ Yup, that's exactly how I set up my Precision. Or don't set it up, as the case may be

 

 

yep and me on my Precision, proving the point (I think) that cutting is better than boosting, cut the frequencies you don't want and the ones you do become more prominent

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 27, 2022 by Jus Lukin