Neo v Standard speakers

[wateroftyne]

So:

• Ceramic drivers have weaker, heavier magnets
• Neo drivers have stronger, lighter magnets

Presumably this affects the response of the speaker cone, and therefore the tone?

...or am I looking at this too simplistically?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Too simplistically. You can achieve the exact same results with neo or ceramic. For that matter you can with AlNico. The AlNico magnet JBL D130 of 1949 had a more powerful magnet than most drivers made today. The advantage to neo is light weight, the disadvantage is cost. That being the case if you use neo you're not going to use it in an inexpensive driver, and if you're making an expensive driver it will probably be low Q. As for tone, you can overdo the magnet strength. Beyond a certain point lower Q results in reduced low frequency response.

[VAMPYRE 5]

On 14/05/2018 at 15:40, fleabag said:

Utter tosh

If tone was in the fingers alone,  basses and amps wouldn't need EQ controls.

Who mentioned the word ‘alone’?

Tone IS in the fingers or are all the great pioneers of bass talking crap?  (Great guitarists for that matter, bless ‘em ).

They all have their own tone or ‘character’ that makes them recognizable due to a lot of factors inc. skill and technique. Tone pots sell (gimmicks) & help root-note ploders think they’re bassists! 👊🏻 😂😭

Edited May 15, 2018 by VAMPYRE 5

[Kevin Dean]

But I use a plectrum

[Lozz196]

22 minutes ago, Kevin Dean said:

But I use a plectrum

Tone is in the plectrums?

[Kevin Dean]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

Tone is in the plectrums?

& I've a large selection in those .

[Cuzzie]

Me too and I rather enjoy a root note and a plectrum

[spectoremg]

On 14/05/2018 at 15:40, fleabag said:

Utter tosh

If tone was in the fingers alone,  basses and amps wouldn't need EQ controls.

This x 100! Why do people spout this $ h1t€? 

[grenadilla]

a nylon plectrum seems to sound more "meaty" (as in 'finger' ). A hard plastic plectrum sounds more "clicky" (tic-tac ) .

[Kevin Dean]

I've recently experimented with 20 different types of plectrum ..& 8 different fingers & two thumbs

[lojo]

Completely non scientific but when I changed from heavy Orange cabs to light weight MarkBass I gigged my orange cabs with the markbass head before I switched to markbass cabs only . Whilst I love markbass , the orange cabs have a punch that I've not heard in any neo cab . Not enough of a diffence to make me stick with heavy cabs , but a difference I'll not forget.

This was nearly 10 years ago and I've been a mark bass fan ever since . I've tried lightweight TC and Orange also 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by lojo

[martthebass]

On ‎14‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 19:00, Kevin Dean said:

I'm also an engineer & I use words like Good or crap  

I'm also an engineer, based in Yorkshire and use phrases like 'It'll be reet'

[Phil Starr]

On ‎14‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 15:40, fleabag said:

Utter tosh

If tone was in the fingers alone,  basses and amps wouldn't need EQ controls.

 

On ‎20‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 14:35, spectoremg said:

This x 100! Why do people spout this $ h1t€? 

Because they are looking for simple answers. It's undoubtedly true that some of the difference in what we hear comes from the skill of the bassist. It is equally true that lot's of other factors are important, like the diameter of the speaker cone or the size of the cab. Sometimes those differences are significant, sometimes trivial. Few of us have the time or inclination to calculate all the factors in so as a species we grasp for simple answers and quick decisions. If they have a heavy old 4x10 they will swap it for a lightweight neo loaded 12 and if they don't like it conclude it's all down to being neo and then eliminate neo from their purchasing calculations from then on. 

I cringe when I see interviewers asking politicians "well minister is it ***********, yes or no." Their viewers may want simple answers but running the health service or education is rarely anything like as simple as speaker design. It's lazy reporting and ultimately people end up voting for politicians that offer simple answers like Trump, Putin or dare one say Hitler.

Beware anyone who says it's all down to any one thing. Whether they say 'speaker cone size makes no difference to tone' or 'all 15's have a sound and all 10's a different one' they will be wrong. Sweeping generalisations are rarely correct.

Neo magnets weight for weight are stronger, that much is true. It let's you do different things if you are building a drive unit but it can also let you do the same things if you choose.

[deepbass5]

A lot of wisdom their Phil, and have to say agree with all of your analagies

A good designed speaker will always be a good designed speaker, physics dictates most of that, and our basses, amps and fingers and ultimately our ears will colour how much we like the sound.

with current materials and CAD should allow us to build the definitive best bass cab. Maybe someone has, many claim this.

My beach is that those large companies with the R&D budgets then spend ££££'s  advertising to the uninitiated that their budget range of cabs are every bit as good as their most expensive range

Best cab i have ever had TechSoundsystem 4x12 neo  1200w 4 ohm great for marquee's- civic halls,  now using  an Acme 1x12 every bit as good but don't need the coverage and trouser flapping

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by deepbass5
spelling

[Kevin Dean]

Weighing some of these neo speakers against the standard speaker I can see most of the weight saved is in the actual cab design & material used & not so much the speaker .