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Jam nights - cliquey


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5 hours ago, chris_b said:

If you feel a jam night is cliquey, don't walk away, join in, became part of the clique and make it less cliquey.

Agreed. You cannot expect to turn up out of the blue and be instantly one of the gang. Go for a few weeks, get to know people and show some support for the evening. Most jams are run by people who receive little reward for all the legwork and organising they do. They welcome those who are prepared to put in a bit of effort, but if you are the type who turns up, does your 3 or 4 numbers and then buggers off, you cannot expect them to be overly thrilled with you.

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Some really interesting posts here. this is what I'm attempting so tell me if I have this right. 

I'm trying to do two things, get a community of musicians together, people who have gigged and are winding down a bit and people who are working up to forming bands. Giving them a chance to network and to make music. It's got to be open and welcoming but giving people the stage time they want. Above all it is about playing in a band, there are plenty of acoustic nights round here so I'm clear I don't want solo acts,  apart from anything else that's only one person having fun.

For the pub and audience it's got to be entertaining and attract an audience, a good atmosphere and lots of customers for the beer. So it's got to be reasonably slick and organised.

I going with a house band, someone has to play if no-one turns up or rescue the evening when everything goes **** up. Apart from kicking off the evening though they are there to play for any singers and support the other musicians filling in for incomplete bands and so on. I'm going to look for another bassist so I can do front of house and work the desk. I've filled the first session with friends, some decent singers from previous bands who'll do a session with the house band and a couple of bands who'll do four or five songs each. I'll end the evening with a jam session of another four songs to make people feel there is a chance for them to join in. I've got a set list for god's sake. Is this too controlling?

I'm going to try and have chord and lyric sheets there, people can take them away and learn songs if they want or join in and at least know what key it's in. I'll collect any details from any musicians who turn up, fit them in if I can but try and book them in for future sessions and offer short showcase sessions to any local bands who fancy it. good ones invited back. Beyond that I'm expecting to have to adapt to whatever turns up on the door. I want to try and keep it to 4-5 song slots to keep the gap between acts down and give people time to enjoy playing. It makes  no sense to me to get people up for two songs, have them warm up and then have a break only to call them back an hour later to spend five minutes re-tuning and adjusting the drumkit.

I'm hoping it's going to be busy enough to let me run a book each month and keep the musical standard up. I'd really like to see people having their first band experience here but I want to attract the best musicians I can and keep a proper live audience coming back. I wouldn't expect good musicians if all they hear is c**p.

Lot's of ideas on this thread I'm going to copy, and I don't expect plans to work out exactly or even roughly but what do you think?

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1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

I've got a set list for god's sake. Is this too controlling?

I'm going to try and have chord and lyric sheets there, people can take them away and learn songs if they want or join in and at least know what key it's in.

Sounds like you've really thought this through, and hopefully it'll be a winner. I'd deffo rock up if I wasn't 500 miles away.

One suggestion though - you could make the set list and chord charts available in advance, rather than hand them out on the night. That would give people the chance to have a noodle in private before turning up to play.

Best of luck with it!

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Thanks, essentially the first night is all my band mates and ex band mates so they pretty much all know the same stuff, we've shared everything all along and I'm hoping the house band is going to grow from them, at the moment it's just a trio, guitar,bass and drums. The stuff I'll take with me will be for next month essentially and any jam session at the end.

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Sounds a lot more organised than any I've attended! Chord sheets are a great idea. I'd also start a Facebook page and encourage any musicians to nominate songs they'd like to play (e.g. posting a YouTube video), that way you could end up with a bunch of strangers agreeing to learn them before the night and playing some lesser known tracks that otherwise wouldn't have a chance.

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  • 1 month later...

I thought I'd run an update now I've run a couple of sessions. We're running on Fri nights, gig round here tend to be on a Sat and a lot of my friends can't do mid week with work commitments, this has shaded what we do so for the pubs benefit I'm keeping the standards reasonably high. So far the local musicians have really taken my arm off. Almost everyone who has been asked has come along to play and those who have come have all wanted to do it again. The musicians are networking as I'd hoped, there's been one serious band formed and one possible romance developing, which I didn't foresee :)

We've settled down to a very simple format which makes management easy for me at the moment. Everyone is getting half an hour with 5 or 6 sets in an evening. We have a small group of musicians who I use as a house band in variable combinations. the sets are either local bands who come and do their thing for 30 mins or a singer with the house band. I'm getting a list of songs in advance so the house band get a chance to have a look before they get there and to cut down the time when everyone tries to decide which song they are doing next. I've new got singers starting to want to join in but so far no new musicians but i'll probably try and get them up with the house band for a few songs if they do.

I've had a few minor issues with the PA, mainly when I'm up on stage and somebody else takes over at the desk (but a few cockups of my own) it's years since I mixed FOH. I played less last time and the sound out front apart from hiccups is already as good if not better than most of the cover bands around.

Next month it looks like I'm going to have a shortage of acts rather than a surplus, mainly due to holidays. I'm going to expand the house band set if I don't find anyone.

The other problem is numbers, I asked the pub for petrol money and beer for the performers but they are paying me and probably making a loss on the evening. They are really supportive and understand the audience will build up over time whilst the standard remains high but I don't want them to make a loss. I'm off to have a meeting with them this week to see what we can do collectively to build up no's.

 

Many thanks to Graham T and Chienmortbb for their bass playing at the event and for Jim and Woody for offering to help. I love basschatters.

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Ran a jam night last week, a couple of actual musicians got up (one drummer*, one guitarist) but the low point was a mithering singer who wanted to do Mustang Sally. I hate that song for the very reason which became apparent:

"I know Mustang Sally"

"Really? All the words?"

"Errrr...yeah"

"How does the second verse go?"

"Errrr..."

Nevertheless, and in the absence of anyone else getting up, we let him. He'd got his phone out for the words before we'd got the intro over, failed to read it properly, failed to listen where the music was up to, you name it; he was halfway through the chorus before the first verse had ended - he just launched into the lyrics, line after line, without pause, and the worst, the very worst bit was him looking round at us like we'd done something wrong. Quite the worst version of the song I've ever heard (and I've heard some bottom-clenchers - see 'I hate that song' above), just half-arsed karaoke with his mates cheering him on. We stopped it after the second chorus with a very definite Big Finish. He didn't notice. 

If I'd have slipped a piece of coal down the back of my trousers, I'd have had a diamond by the end of the song.

I'm never, ever playing that song again.

I'm considering very hard whether I want to host or even go to a jam night again. Bad ones are like being able to hear the adverts on Joinmyband...

 

* Well, he ended up playing drums, but he got up and we said "What do you play? Drums? Guitar? Bass?" and he said "Ohhh, I play everything." So the singer said "I've got an accordion in the boot of the car, d'you wanna give that a go?" You won't be surprised to hear he wasn't very good.

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You can't put rules on a real jam night. If it's open door then they all get the 2 songs they've chosen and even get a second stint if there are not enough players to fill out the evening.

We had a guy who turned up for a couple of years playing Hendrix. In the end no one would play with him so me, as the house bassist, got lumbered. He was extraordinarily loud, had no timing to speak of and didn't play any of the chord changes in the right places. We was told to turn down a few times but never told he couldn't get up.

Thankfully there are usually enough good guys to balance out the idiots.

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Lucky I'm a control freak then. So far it's invite only, if someone comes up from the floor it's one or two songs and if they are no good that's the last time. I read all the horror stories at the beginning of this thread. We've got a number of proper open mic's near us where anything goes. There are some great people but also those who can only play one song and who started playing two months ago. I don't mind going to those and the mix means you always get a couple of people who are worth listening to but I don't want any of them here. That's why I've stuck to a band format, at least I know most of the people on stage will know what they are doing.

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56 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

 I've. never felt open jams were a vehicle for bass players. The open jams IMO is better suited for vocalists, guitar players and blues harp guys.

Blue

They can be in their own way - if the person running the jam knows their onions, the good bass players get called back up more frequently!

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On 11/06/2019 at 14:32, EliasMooseblaster said:

They can be in their own way - if the person running the jam knows their onions, the good bass players get called back up more frequently!

In my neck if the woods being "good" no longer means much. It's about who you know.Not much action for bass players or drummers at open mics/jams around here.

Blue

Edited by Bluewine
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11 hours ago, Bluewine said:

In my neck if the woods being "good" no longer means much. It's about who you know.Not much action for bass players or drummers at open mics/jams around here.

Blue

That's a shame - I've heard of a few jams like that around London where you're lucky to get a look-in unless you're a mate of the guy running it. Which is, of course, the fastest way to stop people coming along week after week, and the first nail in the coffin of that particular jam.

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Having traveled fairly extensively I found that folk Down Under were very generous in letting me participate (even having to borrow a bass) while in the US you were rarely even called. 

Exception was Hawaii, where I had a warm welcome and was called first!

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Over here(France) Open mic nights are quite plentiful but they are, exactly what it should be, open to all, regardless of ability. This of course can be disappointing, boring and even funny at times but alternatively, surprising and brilliant. 

The thing is, there are folks out there who are just starting out and need to build confidence and/or ability and eventually, get to know others on the music scene and possibly learn how to play with others. No doubt, there have been many occasions where someone's confidence has been shattered by the smirking from fellow "clquey" musos. 

French audiences, I've found,  treat anyone and everyone with the utmost respect if they're prepared to get up there and have a go. That, in my view is how it should be hence, I stay well away from jam nights where it's  the same pals every week only wanting to play with whom they're  comfortable with.

A lot of players have conveniently forgotten how much nerve it actually takes to get up on stage and "go public" for the first time.

 

Edited by leschirons
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1 hour ago, Mickeyboro said:

Having traveled fairly extensively I found that folk Down Under were very generous in letting me participate (even having to borrow a bass) while in the US you were rarely even called. 

Exception was Hawaii, where I had a warm welcome and was called first!

One of my brothers was at an event in Bulgaria with his partner. There was a folk band, the locals were chatting to them and after the band they were invited to play - he pointed out that he was left handed so someone actually went off and found a lefty bass for him!

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8 minutes ago, leschirons said:

Over here(France) Open mic nights are quite plentiful but they are, exactly what it should be, open to all, regardless of ability. This of course can be disappointing, boring and even funny at times but alternatively, surprising and brilliant. 

I used to enjoy Warwick folk club around 1989 - Ric Sanders was a regular visitor but I didn't see him play there. Open mics ranged from Anna Ryder (then unkown, now has six folk albums under her belt) to a local teenager doing his best at Kiss's Beth. Everyone playing got a friendly reception, I just wish i had had the courage to have a go!

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