Music stand for singer

[Baxlin]

When you think of it orchestras don’t only have music stands, but they also have a conductor to make sure they stay with it as written.

[Frank Blank]

57 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Respectfully, that’s bollocks. 

The title of my forthcoming novella, there.

[fretmeister]

15 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

No need to be respectful, you're welcome to your opinion. 

My personal experience from local bands that comment on stands has always come from bands that have been playing the same set for years on end, there's not that many words in Freebird anyway, lol. 

My experience is opposite.

 

And I've seen and been in plenty of originals bands where the singer is not the lyric writer and manages to learn the new song or 2 every week and not need a stand.

 

It comes to this - if a tune is SO new that all the players would need a stand (pub gig / rock gig etc, not orchestra) then that song is not ready for performance at all.

However if 1 person in the band needs a stand and the others do not - then that 1 person is letting the side down. Doesn't matter what instrument it is. Guitar / voice / drums / keys, flugel horn. Doesn't matter. They need to do more practice. Like the other band members managed to do.

[HengistPod]

Respectfulness is nice - I'll vouch for mine, whilst seconding the "that's bollocks" line.  Having said that, about 50% of our current set is indeed pre-1985 - which is about when our singer was born so not sure of the relevance, really.

I guess an underlying point, though, is that the band who've been peddling the same set for decades evidently have a singer who's learned the songs (though it may have taken him 30 years).

It kind of relates to the old memes about "rehearsals aren't there for learning the songs, do that at home before you get there". Similarly, gigs certainly aren't for learning the words - you should be well past that stage by the time you're setting up down the pub.

[KevB]

On 09/05/2018 at 10:21, PaulWarning said:

Ah! the old music stand debate, I don't like it at all, especially for the singer, he's the focal point of the band he should be interacting with the audience not staring at the lyrics, like you say it's crutch if it's there he'll use it, I used to have one when I started doing open mics, I got rid of it, if it's there you'll look at it.

Our singer will sometimes have lyric reminders on the floor of new songs we're doing but soon gets rid of them

The only time a music stand should be used is if you're depping, otherwise, learn the songs

^^

For electric rock gigs particularly, this. Singer in latest band still brings his phone to rehearsals for checking lyrics but if he thinks he will be doing it regularly at gigs I will be having words.

Edited May 18, 2018 by KevB

[only4]

On 17/05/2018 at 12:07, HengistPod said:

There are obviously two distinct camps here, neither of which are likely to be swayed in their opinion. Fair enough, horses for courses etc.

Personally, I've played in pub bands for, oh, 30 years or so now. It's only in the last 5-10 years that I've noticed it becoming acceptable for singers to have a folder of words on a music stand at gigs (I'm talking pub-level rock covers here). Previously, a band would have been instantly laughed out of town for the singer not knowing the words, or at least being able to make some up on the hoof that fitted the song if he forgot them - which, let's face it, most punters would never notice if done with a straight face.

Being a reasonably mobile bass player, I think a fairly clear stage area is a must - and my pet hate is music stands. I've seen shows being interrupted for several minutes when the singer's words get punted across the pub by some drunk guy. There's also the fact that you can't get a decent live photo of the whole band without making it entirely obvious that the singer doesn't know the words - most unprofessional. An iPad quietly mounted to the mic stand is about as much as I'll tolerate.

Teleprompters are a whole different story for persons with larger budgets, and they tend to blend in with the stage furniture anyway.

Fact is, I have to learn 30-40 songs on the bass. Why in the name of dog shouldn't the singer be able to learn 30-40 sets of words? Particularly when the chances are that the only piece of kit he's actually had to fork out for is a microphone and a stand (yeah, yeah, irrelevant, I know).

 

We’re a pub rock covers band (with a few originals thrown in for good measure) but the stand appearing in every live photo/video may be an issue, as I think it sends a message out to perspective venues.

[Dad3353]

13 hours ago, only4 said:

...the stand appearing in every live photo/video may be an issue, as I think it sends a message out to perspective venues.

Although perhaps not so much of an issue as redaction skills. 

[gjones]

I have played in bands where the singer will either have the lyrics on a stand, or a tablet. But they are professional musicians so can sing 100s of songs. They can't be expected to be word perfect on every song.

 

[only4]

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Although perhaps not so much of an issue as redaction skills. 

Good job I’m an engineer and not a newspaper editor 😉

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 27, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Wylie]

On May 9, 2018 at 06:22, PaulWarning said:

from my own very limited experience of singing you can sing the song better if you know the lyrics without having to think to hard about them or even worse, read them

Reading the song lyrics onstage is a bit like an actor going out on stage holding the playbook.

[Dad3353]

3 hours ago, Wylie said:

Reading the song lyrics onstage is a bit like an actor going out on stage holding the playbook.

... but only a bit. 

[HaNgMaN]

Quote

Our singer of 3 years now still insists on having his lyric book on a music stand when ever we perform.

I'm not sure if it's just a comfort thing because he seems to have nailed the delivery of all the material, but i'm never sure how muso audiences feel about this plus it's always visible on any photos we have which is a bit of a shame.

Hes got a great voice so we don't want to rock the boat as it took quite a while to find him after we parted company with our last frontman.

Whats the general consensus of opinion to this and is an ipad attached to the mic stand any more acceptable?

It looks really amateurish

[Dad3353]

28 minutes ago, HaNgMaN said:

It looks really amateurish

Quite a lot here are, in fact, amateurs..! As a 'pro' drummer, though, 'back in the day', I had a music stand propped up beside the hi-hat, supporting a ring folder full of several repertoires, drum scores I'd written out for the various variety stuff I'd be asked to play at the drop of a hat. I didn't 'read' from it in real time (no time, you see...), but it gave a quick visual cue as to what was to be played, and maybe a note or two (brushes with this band, sticks for another; stuff like that...). Amateurish..? Quite the opposite, for many situations. Sounds a bit 'snobbish', to me, anyway, to say 'Never on my watch..!'. If the presence of a music stand is all it takes to condemn a band/singer/bassist, there wasn't much respect for 'em in the first place.
I'd agree that it's not good for a singer to be reading from the book, generally, but having a music stand, in itself, is no big deal, for any band or occasion. Not knowing one's stuff is a different affair, and I wouldn't confuse the issues. 

[rushbo]

2 hours ago, HaNgMaN said:

It looks really amateurish

Amateurish is making simple errors, which could be easily avoided by a quick glance at a prompt. 

 

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

I'd agree that it's not good for a singer to be reading from the book, generally, but having a music stand, in itself, is no big deal, for any band or occasion. Not knowing one's stuff is a different affair, and I wouldn't confuse the issues. 

Neatly put and spot on.

[stingrayPete1977]

Almost all the bands I know that use an ipad grab on their stands are far too busy playing loads of gigs a year to a very high standard earning enough to pay their mortgages etc to care what anyone here thinks. 

Thankfully I can't sing for toffee with our without a stand so it's not a choice I'll ever need to make. 

[neilp]

Cast your minds back to all the "Guitarist telling me what/how to play" rants. Seeing a slight case of pot and kettle? What if the singer said to you "you shouldn't need frets, You should be able to do your ting without help to keep you in tune"?

Runs away to hide

[HengistPod]

I don't think the pot-kettle thing is relevant here ... my frets don't stand bigly in front of the band like a slightly embarrassed black plastic palm tree, and they don't cause drunken punters to come up to the other guys at half-time and go "hey, does your bass player not know the songs?".

[Dad3353]

38 minutes ago, HengistPod said:

I don't think the pot-kettle thing is relevant here ... my frets don't stand bigly in front of the band like a slightly embarrassed black plastic palm tree, and they don't cause drunken punters to come up to the other guys at half-time and go "hey, does your bass player not know the songs?".

Those were the reactions 'back then' when the electric, fretted bass first appeared, though..! 'Real' bass players (those who knew their stuff, and didn't need crutches...) played 'real' upright basses. Only namby-pamby lazy tykes showed up on stage with a wooden shovel and a heavy black box. 
How times have changed (and tolerance become the norme, eh..? ).

[HengistPod]

Good point, Dad. Perhaps in 50 years all singers will be standing stock-still, peering at their music stands, flicking through their folder between songs because the bass player said "we'd better play another dancey one now instead of Motorhead, keep them on the floor" - and that'll be seen as the norm.

Persons who have learned the words will be seen as some kind of "classically-trained" music boffin.

(Classically-trained. There's a term I never quite figured out.)

[Dad3353]

There seems to be an automatic association between having a music stand on stage and having a stock-still singer peering constantly at the words, ignoring totally the presence of the audience. Whilst admitting that this could, in fact occur in some, rather odd, scenario, I'd suggest that it's a rather pushed exaggeration, and that the simple presence of a music stand is not the cause of such behaviour. Some folks (not just singers...) can, and do, use stands in an intelligent manner, and do not neglect the 'show' aspect of the occasion. Maybe I've just been lucky in witnessing this, but in that case I've been lucky on numerous occasions. Things aren't always as 'black or white' as that; there is scope for at least fifty shades of grey. 

[EssentialTension]

5 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

There seems to be an automatic association between having a music stand on stage and having a stock-still singer peering constantly at the words, ignoring totally the presence of the audience. Whilst admitting that this could, in fact occur in some, rather odd, scenario, I'd suggest that it's a rather pushed exaggeration, and that the simple presence of a music stand is not the cause of such behaviour. Some folks (not just singers...) can, and do, use stands in an intelligent manner, and do not neglect the 'show' aspect of the occasion. Maybe I've just been lucky in witnessing this, but in that case I've been lucky on numerous occasions. Things aren't always as 'black or white' as that; there is scope for at least fifty shades of grey. 

I've been very lucky in seeing excellent bands, musically and visually, with music stands, and also very unlucky in seeing poor bands, musically and visually, without music stands.

[Mcgiver69]

Oh great someone is talking about my pet peeve!

Listen he might be the singer but lets please create a rule, if you've been singing the same songs for more than 3 months you do not need the lyrics book! Unless the songs are new or relatively new to you, YOU DO NOT NEED THE BLOODY STAND WITH THE LYRICS BOOK BLOCKING THE STAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to learn all my parts why don't you?

/rant