Easy 12" cab build

[fleabag]

Cheers Phil

I hope this is the right way to convert cubic inches to litres,  so ....   the TE Elf cab in inches is  12x 14x 12.5, which when multiplied, returns 2100 cube inches.

This = 34.4  litres approx.  Hope my calcs are correct there.

 

Would  upping this to 40 litres be ok ?    And are your calcs taking into account a slotted port or a round port ?  Not sure what the Elf uses, but it seems too smal for a round port

[Phil Starr]

This is probably the outside dimensions? What you need are the internal ones, I've never seen an Elf in the flesh (!) so I've no idea what those are but my best guess was the internal volume is nearer 27l allowing for the wall thickness and the baffle being set back.  I normally just take a notional figure for the intrusions into the cab so I've been working on a nominal 25l as the volume of the Elf. I don't see a lot of point in designing a 40l cab for what you want. The 10CMV is fairly tolerant of cab sizes and you might as well stick to the BC Easybuild cab which is just over 35l.

 

You need to decide the driver you want to use and how important size is to you. When you have a better idea I'll do a more detailed design.

 

We ought to start a new thread though.

[fleabag]

Good point - cheers

 

The drivers are def. the CMV2  10"  pair as that is all i have.  I'll look at the Easy 12" again, as you say,  it will do the job.  Then start a separate thread

[Phil Starr]

For those looking for a really tiny speaker for home practice with lots of detail and a satisfying sound without neighbour annoying deep bass I built a 6" speaker. The details are here, it was just a bit of fun but if you live in a tiny flat it might just be interesting 

[Stub Mandrel]

23 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

For those looking for a really tiny speaker for home practice with lots of detail and a satisfying sound without neighbour annoying deep bass I built a 6" speaker. The details are here, it was just a bit of fun but if you live in a tiny flat it might just be interesting 

 

One of these day I will be able to get my little combo with four 3" speakers out of the container it's stored in. A very random design, but sounds OK, especially since I pulled most of the wadding out of it!

[BassBunny]

On 08/08/2021 at 20:18, Phil Starr said:

Since it is you

 

I'll have a look at the Beyma 10CMV. I was toying with the idea of designing a 2x10 as a next project and if it needs to be low cost then those Beymas look to fit the bill.

I'm in, particularly if vertically aligned.

[Phil Starr]

4 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

One of these day I will be able to get my little combo with four 3" speakers out of the container it's stored in. A very random design, but sounds OK, especially since I pulled most of the wadding out of it!

Sounds interesting, It's amazing how little real bass you can get away with sometimes. 

[Phil Starr]

28 minutes ago, BassBunny said:

I'm in, particularly if vertically aligned.

OK, is this something you want to crack on with or do you want to wait until @fleabaghas his first 1x10 built? 

If you do want to start straight away I'm not likely to build mine for a while but so long as you are happy to share the process with other people I'm happy to design something for you that others could copy too. If it is just a simple 2x10 then it's not a difficult thing to design and we could customise it to your needs if you wanted.

 

You can tell I've got no gigs can't you, too much time on my hands in the evenings

Edited August 10, 2021 by Phil Starr

[BassBunny]

On 10/08/2021 at 20:03, Phil Starr said:

OK, is this something you want to crack on with or do you want to wait until @fleabaghas his first 1x10 built? 

You can tell I've got no gigs can't you, too much time on my hands in the evenings

I'm not desperate Phil, but like you have time on my hands as currently gigless. I wouldn't have a clue how to start designing a cab but am OK following a "plan" and could probably get a start that I would be more than happy to share.

[anrque]

Any way to easily adapt this Easy 12" design to a 15"? I have an old Peavey combo I want to rehouse the amp and speaker separately. The reasoning is 3-fold. Reduce the weight as the Peavey TKO 65 is heavy AF for a simple home practice amp. Also having the 15 as a separate cab will allow the use of other amps. Lastly its sort of ugly sitting in the living room.

Speaker is a 15" Scorpion and assuming info from Peavey is correct for entry into WinISD:

Impedance: 8 Ohms
Power capacity: 800 W Peak 400 W Program 200 W Continuous

Znom (ohms) 8
Revc (ohms) 5.54
Sd (Square Meters) 0.084
BL (T/M) 17.10
Fo (Hz) 50.1
Vas (liters) 132.4
Cms (uM/N) 174.5
Mms (gm) 70.30
Qms 6.05
Qes 0.345
Qts 0.326
Xmax (mm) 3.1
Le (mH) 0.3
SPL (1W 1m) 98.7
No (%) 4.70%
Vd (cu. in. / ml) 13.9 / 227
Pmax (Watts pgm.) 400

 

The existing TKO 65 must be completely undersized for typical WinISD 15" driver recommendations, yet I do like the existing sound just fine. I haven't cracked it open yet to measure the existing internal volume. I am hoping to end up with a smaller cabinet design like the one from this thread that I can build up out of poplar and stain to integrate into the household.

I have a woodshop/tools at my disposal and the requisite skills. (I've even done dovetails for a Vibrochamp clone in the past.) So it is really just the design stopping me at this point.

[Phil Starr]

16 hours ago, anrque said:

Any way to easily adapt this Easy 12" design to a 15"? I have an old Peavey combo I want to rehouse the amp and speaker separately. The reasoning is 3-fold. Reduce the weight as the Peavey TKO 65 is heavy AF for a simple home practice amp. Also having the 15 as a separate cab will allow the use of other amps. Lastly its sort of ugly sitting in the living room.

Speaker is a 15" Scorpion and assuming info from Peavey is correct for entry into WinISD:

Impedance: 8 Ohms
Power capacity: 800 W Peak 400 W Program 200 W Continuous

Znom (ohms) 8
Revc (ohms) 5.54
Sd (Square Meters) 0.084
BL (T/M) 17.10
Fo (Hz) 50.1
Vas (liters) 132.4
Cms (uM/N) 174.5
Mms (gm) 70.30
Qms 6.05
Qes 0.345
Qts 0.326
Xmax (mm) 3.1
Le (mH) 0.3
SPL (1W 1m) 98.7
No (%) 4.70%
Vd (cu. in. / ml) 13.9 / 227
Pmax (Watts pgm.) 400

 

The existing TKO 65 must be completely undersized for typical WinISD 15" driver recommendations, yet I do like the existing sound just fine. I haven't cracked it open yet to measure the existing internal volume. I am hoping to end up with a smaller cabinet design like the one from this thread that I can build up out of poplar and stain to integrate into the household.

I have a woodshop/tools at my disposal and the requisite skills. (I've even done dovetails for a Vibrochamp clone in the past.) So it is really just the design stopping me at this point.

I'll get back to you on this with some thoughts later, busy today  OK initial thoughts and a couple of questions for you. I've started another thread to keep all the information about your 15 together.

 

 Rehousing a Peavey Speaker - Amps and Cabs - Basschat

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Phil Starr

[anrque]

Hey Phil, that is very kind. Sorry to sort of derail this thread so thanks for starting a new one. With the newer 10" and 12" drivers there seem to be a bunch of options; 15" seem to be so yesterday. I thought it was a good question to bring up though. Especially since electronics are so disposable nowadays. The idea of repurposing old tech that is still good sounds better than throwing stuff away.

[Phil Starr]

It is always good to re-use. I'm really happy that over the weekend somebody took my old Peavey Black Widow and is proposing to use it. Lets do the rest of this on the other thread.

[The fasting showman]

Phil, as requested, the message I sent you.

In case you are wondering what on earth is between the ports I'll explain...I'd rather PM you than stir up a hornets nest or lead to prospective builders demanding crossover designs etc! 

My main amp is Gallien Krueger 700rb ii. It has a 480w main amp / 50 watt horn amp that crosses over at 5k; the main amp seems to just run upwards whilst the high amp starts at 5k. It's crude in some ways but it sounds really nice, it's easy to dial in a bit of 'new strings' sound from the front panel. The 50w amp protects the tweeter also.

I've used it since 2015, I'm very happy with the sound and it seems to get me compliments, albeit my sound not my playing!

The GK cabs have a 4 way speakon that powers the main speaker and horn separately, they have a switch between a crossover or bypass to the 4 way speakon. From a woodwork point of view they merely have a hole hacked into the baffle for the horn, not rocket science.

 

I figured that if my idea bombed I could merely cut another baffle. The horn is a P-audio pht 407n. A lot of the hardware I had kicking around anyway including half a pot of tuff cab! The horn takes up 0.15l by my maths.

 

The Faital Pro PR12-300 and the PHT407n sound great together I am pleased to report, the cab has a great growl that tracks the notes really well, great presence for slap.

 

 

Many thanks again, hope me going off piste doesn't appear as not heeding good advice of people who know better. I think it sounds better than my old GK neo 1x12 anyway and it was that job (i.e a bigger cab with a horn than my 1x10 yet smaller than my GK2x12) I needed sorting as cheaply as possible.

Cheers,

Martin

[Phil Starr]

I love the way you've made this cab your own, and if I had that amp then that is the way I would have gone. It's a shame other bass amps don't offer bi-amping in this way. 

 

That's a lot of punch in a lightweight very portable cab. I hope it gives you years of pleasure.

[thefyst]

So...I've not had much luck with bass cabs lately. Bought a couple second hand that turned out to be trashed and uneconomical to repair. I would love to buy something new and reliable but cant afford it. I have some experience of making things so I find myself here.

 

I am curious about just how much volume you can get out of a pair of these. I'm hoping to at the very least upset the guitarist, I do like to have the option of being overbearingly loud.

 

And how they stand up in comparison to the basschat 1x12 (12" cab diary cont.) with the same Beyma 12cmv2. Is it worth all the hassle of the bracing and cost of the crossover and compression driver. I mean, I'm confident I could do it if pushed but I'm not sure its worth doubling the cost/time of the build.

 

[Phil Starr]

The difference won't be in volume it will be in bass response, the bigger cab will give you more deep bass but from 150hz upwards the response and sound will be the same. The smaller cab compensates a little by having an audible response hump around 100Hz which gives a decent bass thump but is perhaps a little less honest. Gigging two of these is extraordinary, as part of the development of the 50l cab I gigged a pair for about 20 gigs. I had a grumpy drummer at the time and he asked me to crank up the bass as he 'couldn't hear it' (it was well balanced out in the audience area/FOH) for one gig I did crank it and at the end of the first half he had a different complaint 'I couldn't hear my effing snare drum'. Well he never complained again

 

As to adding a tweeter, well that has two advantages, ours is designed to flatten out the response so what you get is the sound of the bass and any fx/tone shaping you choose to apply. The second advantage is in the radiation pattern, big speakers 'beam' the midrange and upper frequencies so that what you hear and what the audience hear are different and with a single 12 you'll be missing out on a lot of the mids and tops unless you angle the cab to point at your ears. of course if you stack two then the top cab will be nearer ear level so this is less of a problem. 

 

In contrast the single speaker gives a character of it's own. The 12CMV2 has a rising upper mid peak like most 12" speakers and with the bass peak at 100Hz it has an inbuilt 'smiley face response' which is pretty much what a lot of us dial in or get naturally in a lot of commercial cab designs.

 

One solution of course is to build one with a horn one without. You then have three options; a full range cab flat response cab, an old school sounding 1x12 and a stack with both honesty and a really authoritative sound. Another option is to start with a simple 12 but leave space to add the horn later and do that as a separate project.

 

I designed the 30l cab for smaller venues. You do lose some bottom end and frankly in small pubs that's really useful, in big/ open air venues not so much, in the end I used it for nearly everything though. Why carry something big when a small cab will do everything you want? Every one of these speakers is going to be loud enough to keep up with a drummer with a 300W into 8ohm amp and because the drivers have been chosen for good excursion they will handle that power comfortably. Two of the 50l cabs will overwhelm the rest of the band if you want, but why would you do that?

 

Hope this helps