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solo4652

Does my pub band really need 4 PA speakers?

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That sounds very loud. We are very loud, far too loud in fact, but I have never turned my RH450 past half way going into 2 1x12s. Basically we have to go up to the volume of the drummer, and he is loud. I wear in ear monitors, they also work like earplugs, I wouldn't be in that volume without them.

We are way to loud to have a good sound, if you are louder, I would hate to hear what it sounds like.

I have a dream of not having a backline, but I can't imagine it ever happening.

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My new project has a pa with 2 tops and two subs. Seemed a bit overkill to me, but after a few load ins/load outs without amps and stage monitors (in ears) it makes life very easy! With a digital mixer too, the mix is almost perfect for every gig straight away. 

 

The idea of having amps and that sort of set up on stage, baffles me! 

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3 hours ago, Elfrasho said:

The idea of having amps and that sort of set up on stage, baffles me! 

That's the dinosaurs for you.

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Quick update: Quietly and carefully, behind the scenes, I've put the main points from this message thread to the band leader, including Mike257's kind offer of advice. Not a word back yet. We're gigging 7th and 13th April. I'll watch what happens - see what changes, if any are made - and then take a view on the situation. You can lead a horse to water, but.....

Edited by solo4652

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17 minutes ago, solo4652 said:

Quick update: Quietly and carefully, behind the scenes, I've put the main points from this message thread to the band leader, including Mike257's kind offer of advice. Not a word back yet. We're gigging 7th and 13th April. I'll watch what happens - see what changes, if any are made - and then take a view on the situation. You can lead a horse to water, but.....

You cant push the bast*rd in and drown him?

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18 minutes ago, FuNkShUi said:

You cant push the bast*rd in and drown him?

He's a nice guy, actually, and I get on well with him. Part of the problem may be that he's trying to keep the band's two sub-camps happy - there's the loud 'n' blokey rockers, and there's the groove-oriented soul funksters, which is where I am.

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We are a room shaking rock band  with a 10k 4 speaker  EV set up(just ticking over)

They sit in front of the band and everyone goes through them,then your backline is purely that and shouldn't really bleed out front though the guitar amp is miked so it will no doubt travel.My bass rig is quite loud but its pretty much for my benefit only.We can get stage mix  right down bu the drums limit how low you can go

Edited by jazzmanb

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49 minutes ago, jazzmanb said:

the drums limit how low you can go

Strictly speaking it's the 'drummer' rather than the drums but you often get more sense from the drumkit! 

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Tiny kits, miced up. Let the PA do the work.

But drummers generally see their kits as an extension of their lower regions.

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Absolutely no good reason to have those PA cabs at the back! Sorry but it'd be them, or me that goes!

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Might just be worth mentioning that no other band uses this approach - that would seem to speak for itself.

We use two RCF 15 tops (325s), and either no sub, one sub or two depending on venue size. Most pubs no subs. The subs aren't to give that 'chest thumping' bass (that's just vanity imho for pub gigs) just on tick over to free up the tops and provide a full sound.

Bass Di and keys, guitars, vox and drums all in the PA.Guitarist uses a Helix with an Alto 110 for stage monitoring. Another 110 back with the drummer firing forward with a full mix. Ditched all other monitors as we can hear the FOH . I have my rig so I can hear it.

Had a gig recently where due to the space had to have a sub and top behind me. The FOH sound was great but it wasn't pleasant having the rig firing behind me. Not  something we'd be keen to replicate.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

T...But drummers generally see their kits as an extension of their lower regions.

We'd better not discuss the Fender neck and headstock then, eh..? 9_9

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It can be Overkill. Depends how your using the PA. If it's used to fine tune and control your sound I think that's a good thing. And I'd say you really need a dedicated sound guy. 

Just because some of us are playing small bars and pubs doesn't mean we shouldn't sound our best.

If your using an advanced PA for volume only, then I'd say that's questionable.

I've seen guys play clubs with no PA and guitar amps for vocals. Doesn't work for me.

Blue

Edited by Bluewine

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3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

We'd better not discuss the Fender neck and headstock then, eh..? 9_9

No need to be a dick about it! :D

Edited by Jus Lukin

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tell the BL that there is a very good reason that he is the ONLY PERSON IN ROCK AND ROLL HISTORY to have a PA at the BACK of the STAGE. Explain the principle of feedback to him.

A PA speaker's job is to project music to the AUDIENCE, foldback speakers are used for on stage monitoring.

Seriously, insist on a sound engineer to run sound from now on.

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3 hours ago, bazzbass said:

...he is the ONLY PERSON IN ROCK AND ROLL HISTORY to have a PA at the BACK of the STAGE...

[Pedantry]
Not strictly true, of course ...

30783444585_8bf46bfc18_o.jpg

(Grateful Dead's 'Wall Of Sound', 1973...) Abandoned quite rapidly, not for acoustic reasons, but the logical complexity of setting up/tearing down was too much for touring.
[/Pedantry]

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7 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

[Pedantry]
Not strictly true, of course ...

30783444585_8bf46bfc18_o.jpg

(Grateful Dead's 'Wall Of Sound', 1973...) Abandoned quite rapidly, not for acoustic reasons, but the logical complexity of setting up/tearing down was too much for touring.
[/Pedantry]

That's what you get when you give a man like Bear an open cheque book and ask him to design the most perfect PA system possible. Still unsurpassed to this day.

(they had two of them, and two crews, who leapfrogged each other from gig to gig).

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@solo4652: Show your BL the photo ^^; ask if he's prepared to go to those lengths to make it work..? (Be prepared for him to say 'Yes', of course..! xD)

Edited by Dad3353

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Could the issue be you have a drummer with an electronic kit? And your BL is worried that everyone (but most likely him) must hear him - hence the amount / positioning of the monitoring? And that hes giving everyone the same monitor mix?

As said, theres so many better ways to do this, but it could be just the limitations on the desk dont give you enough monitor outs, so hes kind of using a pa sound for everyone.

For me, it defeats the point of taking an electronic kit if you then have to put it tbrough a full pa and on top of that upset the othet band members.

 

 

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1 hour ago, la bam said:

Could the issue be you have a drummer with an electronic kit? And your BL is worried that everyone (but most likely him) must hear him - hence the amount / positioning of the monitoring? And that hes giving everyone the same monitor mix?

As said, theres so many better ways to do this, but it could be just the limitations on the desk dont give you enough monitor outs, so hes kind of using a pa sound for everyone.

For me, it defeats the point of taking an electronic kit if you then have to put it tbrough a full pa and on top of that upset the othet band members.

 

 

I've worked with lots of drummers who used electronic kits and most used either a back line amp themselves and monitor for choice of mix or 2 monitors. One for the drums and one with an overall mix for the fallbacks.

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30 minutes ago, BassBunny said:

I've worked with lots of drummers who used electronic kits and most used either a back line amp themselves and monitor for choice of mix or 2 monitors. One for the drums and one with an overall mix for the fallbacks.

We have a deputy drummer (last resort) who uses a Roland electronic kit plugged into a keyboard amp. It still sounds terrible however.

Edited by rushscored4

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21 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

Strictly speaking it's the 'drummer' rather than the drums but you often get more sense from the drumkit! 

Well how loud they play is how loud the play .Wouldn't expect someone to tell me to stop hitting the strings so hard or to hit harder

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1 hour ago, jazzmanb said:

Well how loud they play is how loud the play .Wouldn't expect someone to tell me to stop hitting the strings so hard or to hit harder

That's it, dynamics are officially dead.

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2 hours ago, rushscored4 said:

We have a deputy drummer (last resort) who uses a Roland electronic kit plugged into a keyboard amp. It still sounds terrible however.

Depends on the kit and the amp - this isn't necessarily true for all.

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