Musician wins ruling over hearing loss.

[Dan Dare]

3 minutes ago, mikel said:

Sad for anyone to have hearing damage, but for him to blame others seems way off to me. Cheap good quality hearing protection is easy to come by and works well. I use some that cuts the volume but retains the sound spectrum and I play in loud rock bands. I can see this opening a huge can of worms re the ambulance chasing lawyers. If he thought the rehearsals were too loud he could have said something, or walked. His choice.

Good points, but classical musicians appear woefully ignorant of any threat to their hearing compared to those of us who play electric instruments. There seems to be a commonly held perception that unamplified instruments are not capable of causing damage.

[LeftyP]

My wife, who plays in an orchestra, has been following this case.  She said he was wearing ear plugs and the H&S people had been monitoring the sound levels during rehearsals following other complaints. I'm not sure where she found that information but, whatever the the rights and wrongs of the story, I do not see the need for excessive volume.  I have left music performances because of the volume.  An orchestra in full flight makes an awesome sound and it not only the musicians who are at risk of hearing damage. I once "enjoyed" a Status Quo concert by sitting on a grassy bank several hundred yards away fro the venue they were in - it was loud where I was sitting!

[fretmeister]

2 hours ago, mikel said:

Sad for anyone to have hearing damage, but for him to blame others seems way off to me. Cheap good quality hearing protection is easy to come by and works well. I use some that cuts the volume but retains the sound spectrum and I play in loud rock bands. I can see this opening a huge can of worms re the ambulance chasing lawyers. If he thought the rehearsals were too loud he could have said something, or walked. His choice.

That’s not what the law says.

[Krysbass]

I've been using earplugs for all rehearsals and gigs for the last 10 years. In that time I've been astonished at how many other musicians I've crossed paths with resolutely refuse to wear ear plugs or take any other precautions to protect their hearing.

On a couple of occasions their attitude has even been that ear-plugs are not "rock and roll" or "macho"!?!?

Since my current band is one that I started with my son; we've both been at pains to talk to the 3 other band members on several occasions about the wisdom of wearing ear protection and sharing useful information,  but as Stan Laurel once said; "you can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead" .  

[mikel]

11 hours ago, fretmeister said:

That’s not what the law says.

So what?  Hearing loss is almost inevitable as we get older, so how do we decide who has been effected by "excessive" noise and who is simply losing hearing due to natural causes?  I still play in bands with guys I know from 50 years ago, some have hearing loss and/or tinnitus and some have not. What caused it, being in loud bands, listening to headphones, or natural causes? Its a can of worms open to any chancer to make some money out of the state, ie, us.  Who is to say this person has not been using headphones at home at stupid volume.

Edited April 1, 2018 by mikel
Additions.

[stingrayPete1977]

1 hour ago, mikel said:

So what?  Hearing loss is almost inevitable as we get older, so how do we decide who has been effected by "excessive" noise and who is simply losing hearing due to natural causes?  I still play in bands with guys I know from 50 years ago, some have hearing loss and/or tinnitus and some have not. What caused it, being in loud bands, listening to headphones, or natural causes? Its a can of worms open to any chancer to make some money out of the state, ie, us.  Who is to say this person has not been using headphones at home at stupid volume.

That's why we have experts and a legal system, I don't think you'll be allowed to turn up at your local theatre with a violin and be given a cheque for a few grand. 

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, mikel said:

So what?  Hearing loss is almost inevitable as we get older, so how do we decide who has been effected by "excessive" noise and who is simply losing hearing due to natural causes?...

Regular, systematic hearing tests, carried out by the company's medical officer or a third-party consultant, create records of the evolution of one's hearing, along with other standard medical check-ups (eyesight, , urine sample, blood pressure etc...). The tests take into account the natural losses due to ageing. For those exposed to noisy environments, the hearing tests in France are annual; for other employees every two years. I'd imagine similar practise being applicable in the UK and elsewhere. Routine H&S, really, no great surprise, surely..?

[mikel]

20 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Regular, systematic hearing tests, carried out by the company's medical officer or a third-party consultant, create records of the evolution of one's hearing, along with other standard medical check-ups (eyesight, , urine sample, blood pressure etc...). The tests take into account the natural losses due to ageing. For those exposed to noisy environments, the hearing tests in France are annual; for other employees every two years. I'd imagine similar practise being applicable in the UK and elsewhere. Routine H&S, really, no great surprise, surely..?

So what is the answer? Do we all stop playing in bands or orchestras? Stop listening to music? Use ear defenders every time we leave the house cos we may come into contact with a noisy vehicle or a road drill at some point?.  As I say, It was his choice to play an instrument and to play with others, if he thought it too loud he could always have walked away. Everything is someone else's fault, it seems. No, we have personal choice and responsibility for the outcome of those choices. I have tinnitus from playing in bands, where do I join the queue to pick up my million quid?

[Dad3353]

10 minutes ago, mikel said:

So what is the answer? Do we all stop playing in bands or orchestras? Stop listening to music? Use ear defenders every time we leave the house cos we may come into contact with a noisy vehicle or a road drill at some point?.  As I say, It was his choice to play an instrument and to play with others, if he thought it too loud he could always have walked away. Everything is someone else's fault, it seems. No, we have personal choice and responsibility for the outcome of those choices. I have tinnitus from playing in bands, where do I join the queue to pick up my million quid?

You're ranting at the wrong person, I'm afraid. I'm an anarchist, and a firm believer in taking one's destiny into one's own hands. Far be it for me to defend the present System, but the fact remains that, whilst accepting fully that everyone has freedom to choose how to protect themselves, there is still a duty for employers to ensure adequate working conditions for those working for them, and this includes musicians. You mention, in your exaggeration, road drills. Do you see workers operating those with no protection..? Not often, I'd guess. A viola player sitting in  front of a brass section is no different, I say. Should he have refused to play there..? Maybe, but the employers are not absolved from their obligations, just the same. Would I have stayed there in the din and racket..? Probably not, but that's easy to say from my armchair and with hindsight. Once the damage is done, it's too late to move away. No-one should be put in such a position if it can be avoided. (Accidents are a different kettle of fish; we're discussing work conditions, not fortuitous incidents...).

You ask (rhetorically, I presume...) 'What's the answer..?' I'd suggest the wearing of adequate protection whenevr exposed to loud noises, whatever their provenance, if one's hearing is of any value to one.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Dad3353